Vedic Astrology : Open Thread

The Don said:
Well that's a verifiable claim. Find 10 people whose exact time of birth is known and if the astrologer can tell the date and time of birth from the palm only, they get $1,000,000.

Of course the identiites of the individuals would have to remain confidential before the reading to prevent cheating.
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If you read the posts in context, you will find that I was referring to cases, when people KNOW there birth date, but are not very sure of know their birth time (to minutes) with accuracy. In this case, because there only few hours to look at, the astrologer can look into that window of few hours, look at the lines in hand, ask few questions and arrive at correct birth time.

The Don said:
Sorry, didn't realise that he'd bu99ered off
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I am back!
 
case sensitive said:
Well how precise do they want? Right second and room number at the hospital? Is the important to tell them where in the room the bed was placed? If it was a high or a low bed? Do they have to know in what direction you were born.

And don't they need to know if you were born over or under sea level? And how much over or under? But I guess they never thought about that at all...
:)
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I must have mentioned it more than one time, what a vedic astrologer need.
Please spare us irrelevant questions. Or maybe not! Seems like "educating" on Vedic Astrology is my purpose on this forum since no-one (except for burrahobbit) knows anything correct about it.

The following is just to quote what I had said previously. I am no longer offering it :
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"I would need one person's details (Date Time of birth, place of birth). I will post back some of the highlights and the person can pass on the verdict.

I donot need to know any more than the above information."
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steenkh said:
You are right. But I really think that most astrologers do not think of themselves as con-artists. Not those I have met, at any rate. But they were also poor!
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Please do share your experiences, comments. I need to know from people who have had interactions with Vedic Astrologers. Whether in favour or against. Please!
 
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ManLondon said:
I would need one person's details (Date Time of birth, place of birth). I will post back some of the highlights and the person can pass on the verdict.
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I have volunteered twice now, and happily do it again. Do you accept?

Looking forward to your reply.
 
jlam said:
ManLondon,

Please, slow down for a moment and take a breath. There are many of us who want to help you.

You say that you want to get Vedic Astrology tested beyond doubt. There are many of us here who are willing to help you in a non-hostile way. Let's forget about everything that has happened in the past on this thread, and let's focus on getting a way to, in your words, test this beyond doubt.

Does that sound fair?
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I have always been willing to work with ManLondon to develop a protocol for testing the evidence of Vedic Astrology scientifically, so we can all see what conclusions may be drawn, if any. As have many skeptic posters. No-one is trying to tear down Vedic Astrology without thinking.

But neccessarily, this examination process will require some tough questions that will challenge strongly-held beliefs, and which will take a dispassionate look at the actions of the proponents of these beliefs. Without that research, we simply cannot progress the testing protocol. Fortunately we have a bunch of people here whose usual livelihood is in scientific testing and research, so we can certainly make a reasonable attempt at defining these protocols and examining such evidence.

What is more, we skeptics are always very kind to people who, through simply being misguided and/or unintentionally ignorant of the subject, have actually put their cherished beliefs to the test but found them sorely wanting. You might have a look at Edge, for example. We do NOT set out to humiliate honest people whose beliefs in paranormal phenomena fail them under proper testing. THAT is rude.

The problem we have had so far is that ManLondon does not seem willing to come to this party - much has been written, but very little actual information has been provided. In fact, there seems to be a deliberate avoidance of information provision. And unless this avoidance ends, we can only conclude that the scientific examination of Vedic Astrology is NOT what ManLondon is here for. Alternative reasons I can only speculate (and I did only speculate).

If you think I'm such a rude person, ManLondon, please bring forth real scientific evidence of Vedic Astrology being valid and humble me with it. I am asking politely once again...
 
Hi ManLondon nice to have you back again. Nice work answering all questions!

If I understand you right. If I know when I was born and where an Vedic Astrologer could tell by reading my hand at what time? By reading my palmlines and so on.

If that is so then a test would be easy.

Take 5 test persons that know what minute they were born and let an astrologer find the exact time of the birth. If he is right about the time that would be enough to make me a believer for sure. 3/5 right should really be enough since there are 1440 minutes in a day. Randi should give up the money to guy or girl who can do that.
 
ManLondon said:
I was refused an impartial judge and offered to reverse the protocol. Remember?
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You were not refused an impartial judge. That's the last thing we want. The whole point of my post was to create a test that involves as little subjective judging as possible.

The reverse protocol would be an accurate test with no room for confusion. The time is either right or wrong. A prediction can be ambiguous. Let's remove all uncertainty. Numbers do not lie.
 
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ManLondon said:
Please do share your experiences, comments. I need to know from people who have had interactions with Vedic Astrologers. Whether in favour or against. Please!
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Yes, I am really impressed that you are taking care of answering every single member of the mob that you must feel surround you!

I am sorry to say that Vedic astrologers are inshort supply in Denmark. Those few astrologers I have known have been western astrologers.

You should however be careful about ignoring the possibility that your astrological reading has not been cold reading. It is normal that people who have been subjected to cold reading do not realise it, and that they disbelieve it when told that it was so. In your case the reading has been without any input from you, but as I have told, it is still possible to make readings that many people will find are astonishingly accurate. The person who makes the reading does not need to know that he is performing cold reading, although most probably do. He can simply have a flair for making statements that most people feel are hits, and the astrologer may think himself a very gifted astrologer.

As I said before, if you publish parts of your reading, we might be able to point out if there are sign of cold reading. But of course it only works if you have it in writing because memory is not very good at keeping the deatils necessary for this task.
 
delphi_ote said:
The reverse protocol would be an accurate test with no room for confusion. The time is either right or wrong. A prediction can be ambiguous. Let's remove all uncertainty. Numbers do not lie.
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I am sorry, I take my words back. I did not realise where you were coming from your short message. Though your reasoning is totally logical and valid. Very true! But, really it will be a very elaborate task to find exact date and time of birth from information about a person. It may be theoratically possible, I think.

I would surely add that this guy is different. He seem very specific.
 
ManLondon,

Will you agree to let bygones be bygones and try to work with the members here to try to come up with a test protocol that will help you prove or disprove the concepts of Vedic Astrology?
 
Fourth time I volunteer to be a test subject.

There won't be a fifth time.
 
steenkh said:
Yes, I am really impressed that you are taking care of answering every single member of the mob that you must feel surround you!
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Very true! That is exactly how I feel. Like Abhimanyu surrounded by Kauravs. :)

But I had no choice I have to close the open questions and answer the false allegations. It was a direct attack on buddha inside me. (which by the way, every living being has, according to buddhism)

steenkh said:
I am sorry to say that Vedic astrologers are inshort supply in Denmark. Those few astrologers I have known have been western astrologers.
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Oh! pity! I am not very sure about other Astrological methods.

steenkh said:
You should however be careful about ignoring the possibility that your astrological reading has not been cold reading. It is normal that people who have been subjected to cold reading do not realise it, and that they disbelieve it when told that it was so. In your case the reading has been without any input from you, but as I have told, it is still possible to make readings that many people will find are astonishingly accurate. The person who makes the reading does not need to know that he is performing cold reading, although most probably do. He can simply have a flair for making statements that most people feel are hits, and the astrologer may think himself a very gifted astrologer.
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Yes, I am very much aware of these tactics. There are some not-so-honest people in Vedic Astrology as well, like any other field.

But, I am puzzled, how can this website do cold reading based on just birth time and place in 5 seconds?
steenkh said:
As I said before, if you publish parts of your reading, we might be able to point out if there are sign of cold reading. But of course it only works if you have it in writing because memory is not very good at keeping the deatils necessary for this task.
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ManLondon said:
But, really it will be a very elaborate task to find exact date and time of birth from information about a person. It may be theoratically possible, I think.
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Now you're starting to sound a little more like a skeptic, ManLondon. Good for you!

What about just finding the person's date of birth, or even just their birthday? Do you think that would be fair to expect? It wouldn't take many trials to find a statistically significant result if your astrologer could do this.

Even just being able to match birthdays with descriptions for a group of 10 people or so would be a good test (and similar to one Randi/Kramer developed to test another astrologer.)

The information given to your astrolorger would have to be controlled, of course. Couldn't have them mining enough data and running off to Google or something like that. I think we'd both want a test where the outcome would be unambiguous. That way nobody could accuse anyone of cheating.
 
Ryokan said:
Fourth time I volunteer to be a test subject.

There won't be a fifth time.
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Ryokan,

Thanks very much for your kind offers. Please allow me some time to think about it.

You are a buddhist. You can understand very well the very meaning of making bad causes by badmouthing someone on the right path.

I have made up my mind not do forecasts for anyone on this forum. I am bit skeptical of this forum now.
 
ManLondon,

What is your purpose in returning here? Are you willing to let us help you test Vedic Astrology?

Thanks :)
 
delphi_ote said:
Now you're starting to sound a little more like a skeptic, ManLondon. Good for you!
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I have my mind open and thats why I had started this thread, initially.

delphi_ote said:
What about just finding the person's date of birth, or even just their birthday? Do you think that would be fair to expect? It wouldn't take many trials to find a statistically significant result if your astrologer could do this.
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I can give a long answer to this which could explain why this is such a daunting and time consuming task. The short answer is that this bit too much to ask.

delphi_ote said:
Even just being able to match birthdays with descriptions for a group of 10 people or so would be a good test (and similar to one Randi/Kramer developed to test another astrologer.)
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Thats really interesting. Was he a Vedic Astrologer? Could you please post a link?
 
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