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Transwomen are not Women - Part 15

The seeming love for the IOC is very perplexing. In this Olympics alone they have turned a blind eye to systematic doping of Chinese swimmers. They do what is politically expedient at the time.

Women are endangered by biological men competing as women in contact sports. Someone can die as a consequence. The participation of these two boxers is not just about obvious unfairness.
 
johnny karate said:
Team Biologically Male has a delusional Trump supporter on their side. That’s got to feel good.
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Which part of that is replying to my post, which is pointing out biological facts.
He is not a woman or a trans woman, he is an unfortunate man, and a groper.

This video deals in old fashioned facts, such as the 160% rule.
https://twitter.com/nicholelizaq/status/1819035576559120743?t=S9iFpUG19Mm6ueT3Ek6TFw&s=19

Minute 11:50
The 160% punching power of male vs female.
 
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Pixel42 said:
The interesting question for me is whether the presence or absence of the Y chromosome is indeed sufficient to rule someone out as a competitor in a female sports league. I know the differences between male and female bodies which make separate female sports leagues advisable are not confined to the presence or absence of dangly bits, but I don't know how many of them are determined by the presence or absence of the Y chromosome.
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For me the interesting question is why this case is a matter for this thread, whatever their biology they are not trans folk.
 
Darat said:
For me the interesting question is why this case is a matter for this thread, whatever their biology they are not trans folk.
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I’m not certain this has been established at all. All we know is they were tested and disqualified by the IBA.
 
johnny karate said:
Then we’re putting the cart before the horse. There’s no reason to expect a certain test to be performed if we don’t even know the scientific validity of that test.
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It's a scientifically valid test, I just don't know enough about human biology to form an opinion as to whether it's a definitive one when it comes to determining whether particular individuals have an unfair advantage when competing against biological females.

I also don't know how each sporting organisation determines what eligibility criteria to use, and the role scientific evidence versus political expediency plays in that determination in each case.
 
Darat said:
For me the interesting question is why this case is a matter for this thread, whatever their biology they are not trans folk.
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Disagreements between different sporting organisations about the criteria by which it is determined whether someone is eligible to compete in a female only sports league are on topic, surely. If the argument can be resolved and agreement reached, those agreed criteria will apply as much to transwomen as to intersex individuals.
 
johnny karate said:
Good news, you don’t have take the IOC at their word as the only piece of evidence. Both the home country governments of the two boxers - including one that makes changing gender illegal - also reject the notion that they are biologically male. They have both competed as female in multiple events run by different organizations and have had no issue with eligibility with any of them.
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Of course, because the origin country of a national sportsman has absolutely NO stake whatsoever in whether or not that sportsman wins Olympic gold medals or not, along with the millions of $$$ that come along withthem

You cannot be this naive, surely?
 
Pixel42 said:
Disagreements between different sporting organisations about the criteria by which it is determined whether someone is eligible to compete in a female only sports league are on topic, surely. If the argument can be resolved and agreement reached, those agreed criteria will apply as much to transwomen as to intersex individuals.
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This! And as lionking pointed out earlier, it was the objection to males competing in female sports and getting rights to enter female-only spaces that kicked this whole thread off in the first place!
 
Samson said:
This individual is 30 kg heavier than the woman,
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This is not possible. Boxing is run in weight divisions. The Olympic women's divisions are as follows.

Flyweight (50kg)
Bantamweight (54kg)
Featherweight (57kg)
Lightweight (60kg)
Welterweight (66kg)
Middleweight (75kg)

There is only between 3kg and 6 kg difference between weight divisions. Khelif is a light welterweight (63 kg) so he could not possibly be 30 kg heavier than Carini.
 
smartcooky said:
Of course, you didn't address anything he posted, but we've come to expect that kind of dodging from Team Males Should Be Allowed to Compete in Female Sports
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I appreciate that.
It is never more important than now with Bidens title 9 rules being enforced today.
American girls and women must compete against boys and men who self ID as trans girls and trans women, and share all change and sanitary facilities.
 
Darat said:
For me the interesting question is why this case is a matter for this thread, whatever their biology they are not trans folk.
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I said that but got slapped down.

To me it feels like this is a different subject, but I can see why it's discussed here: it comes down to the basic question at the heart of the thread - the question that nobody is supposed to ask any more. What is a woman?
 
lionking said:
I’m not certain this has been established at all. All we know is they were tested and disqualified by the IBA.
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Are they a male who has claimed - officially or not - that they've changed their sex to female? Without that "change" there is no trans issue.

The issue here is whether their biology "should" put them in the female or male category for a sporting event.
 
Samson said:
Which thread should we discuss the case on?
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I'd say there are several interesting issues that could be discussed, for example the social issues raised by someone with more unusual biology than most and whether they are viewed as women or men, in sports does their biology give them an "unfair" advantage/disadvantage in a given category (unfair in quotes as a lot of sport at the top levels is about people with biological advantages) and so on. For sport this has been a perennial issue ever since "sex testing" was introduced into sport, long before the fad for discussing trans issues.

I just can't see it being a trans issue.
 
Pixel42 said:
Disagreements between different sporting organisations about the criteria by which it is determined whether someone is eligible to compete in a female only sports league are on topic, surely. If the argument can be resolved and agreement reached, those agreed criteria will apply as much to transwomen as to intersex individuals.
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Why should one criteria cover two different things?
 
Darat said:
Are they a male who has claimed - officially or not - that they've changed their sex to female? Without that "change" there is no trans issue.

The issue here is whether their biology "should" put them in the female or male category for a sporting event.
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Maybe? If someone is officially considered female in a certain country, but their biology doesn't reflect that, does it make a difference whether it's the individual or the official position that has muddled the issue?

Practically, the outcome would be the same, which is what this thread has always been about.
 
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