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Today's Mass Shooting

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Oh, will you link to the manifesto of the shooter(s)' that show their terrorist attack was motivated by the racist theory that's mainstream in one of our two main political parties?

...No?

You mean, it wasn't a terrorist attack? Wasn't even connected to politics?
I know it may be difficult for you to comprehend but the violence that led to the deaths of the people in the shooting I linked to is not better or worse than the violence in Buffalo. You choose to pretend one is worse than the other but I'm not going to.


…he murdered people in the name of the ideology you share with him.
The ideology I share with him, which ideology is that?

I get that you want the terrorist attack to leave the news faster than celebrities slapping each other, but your objections just prove how important opposing the MAGA terrorists is.
And I get that you want to focus on this one mass shooting while pretending the other 205 that have occurred so far this year just aren't that important because they can't be blamed on your political opposition.
 
You mean, it wasn't a terrorist attack? Wasn't even connected to politics?

That's right. Bogative's teeth-gnashing and general racist pandering in this thread resolves around not understanding - or understanding perfectly well but refusing to acknowledge - that there are two broad but very different categories that "mass shootings" fall into.

The first category is people getting into arguments and altercations which develop into fights, and then rapidly into gunfights because the arguers happened to be armed and shooting at the other person is what you do when you're armed and someone starts an altercation with you because "ermagerd, fear of bodily harm". These shootings are limited in "intent" - such intent as there may be - but easily become mass shootings when they happen in public and there are crowds of bystanders around who weren't involved or targeted but managed to get hit by all the bullets flying around. The overarching cause of this problem is the proliferation of guns, and the cause of that in turn is a fetish for guns and the trappings of gun culture which is widely deeply embedded in the modern image of America and what it means to be American.

The second category is incidents like the Buffalo shooting, where the shooters go to a place planning to kill people they don't individually know and have no personal dispute with but rather because the people - or even, in some cases, the place itself, and thus the people at it by extension - represent some unforgivable ideological transgression. Usually the goal is a high score - to kill as many people as possible before they are stopped - and for that reason these shootings involve a fair amount more deliberation. There's more planning involved, and different kinds of planning. Because the shooters feel they are motivated by a higher cause, they often feel compelled to justify themselves, which is why they tend to leave things behind ahead of time explaining why they've done what they've done.

However politically or rhetorically inconvenient it is, the fact is the two types of shootings are very different in fundamental ways.
 
I know it may be difficult for you to comprehend but the violence that led to the deaths of the people in the shooting I linked to is not better or worse than the violence in Buffalo. You choose to pretend one is worse than the other but I'm not going to.


The ideology I share with him, which ideology is that?

And I get that you want to focus on this one mass shooting while pretending the other 205 that have occurred so far this year just aren't that important because they can't be blamed on your political opposition.

While you want to focus on a non existing connection to skin colour.
 
That's right. Bogative's teeth-gnashing and general racist pandering in this thread resolves around not understanding - or understanding perfectly well but refusing to acknowledge - that there are two broad but very different categories that "mass shootings" fall into.

The first category is people getting into arguments and altercations which develop into fights, and then rapidly into gunfights because the arguers happened to be armed and shooting at the other person is what you do when you're armed and someone starts an altercation with you because "ermagerd, fear of bodily harm". These shootings are limited in "intent" - such intent as there may be - but easily become mass shootings when they happen in public and there are crowds of bystanders around who weren't involved or targeted but managed to get hit by all the bullets flying around. The overarching cause of this problem is the proliferation of guns, and the cause of that in turn is a fetish for guns and the trappings of gun culture which is widely deeply embedded in the modern image of America and what it means to be American.

The second category is incidents like the Buffalo shooting, where the shooters go to a place planning to kill people they don't individually know and have no personal dispute with but rather because the people - or even, in some cases, the place itself, and thus the people at it by extension - represent some unforgivable ideological transgression. Usually the goal is a high score - to kill as many people as possible before they are stopped - and for that reason these shootings involve a fair amount more deliberation. There's more planning involved, and different kinds of planning. Because the shooters feel they are motivated by a higher cause, they often feel compelled to justify themselves, which is why they tend to leave things behind ahead of time explaining why they've done what they've done.

However politically or rhetorically inconvenient it is, the fact is the two types of shootings are very different in fundamental ways.

I got pilloried for saying something like this earlier in the thread.

Bogative's whole drive here is to bring attention to the type of shootings he wants the attention on, because they are more often that not done by people he hates and doesn't approve of - *******. He want to drive discussion away from shootings like Buffalo, and El Paso, and Parklands, because those are white shooters, and he doesn't like people saying bad stuff about his white heroes.
 
How are the numbers stacking up this year? Blacks committing mass shootings against blacks, vs white racists committing mass shootings against blacks? I'm interested in assessing the greater threat to these communities. This way we can devote proper attention to the areas that will be of the greatest positive impact.

I think Bogative may be keeping a running tally?
 
Frankly, I don't give a rats arse about Bogative's favorite mass shootings. They don't count anyway AFAIC - the perpetrators are generally criminals and gang members, and the victims are generally their criminal rivals and compatriots. Sometimes there is collateral damage, but not very often. If criminal gangs want to wipe each other out, who am I to complain - saves the taxpayers money IMV.
 
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How are the numbers stacking up this year? Blacks committing mass shootings against blacks, vs white racists committing mass shootings against blacks? I'm interested in assessing the greater threat to these communities. This way we can devote proper attention to the areas that will be of the greatest positive impact.

I think Bogative may be keeping a running tally?

Frankly, I don't give a rats arse about Bogative's favorite mass shootings. They don't count anyway AFAIC - the perpetrators are generally criminals and gang members, and the victims are generally their criminal rivals and compatriots. Sometimes there is collateral damage, but not very often. If criminal gangs want to wipe each other out, who am I to complain - saves the taxpayers money IMV.


Ok, so you are saying that you only care about a very tiny percentage of the total number of blacks who are shot in mass shootings each year? And, in your view the vast majority of blacks who are shot in mass shootings had it coming, because they were involved in criminal activity at some level? I believe this is an accurate paraphrasing of the above, but if not please clarify.
 
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I'm sure that by one measure Warp and Bogative could have a point, but it's not the same point.

If you want to compare black mass shootings of blacks with white mass shootings of blacks, it makes a difference whether you lump them all together or count who are the victims. Criminals shooting each other is not quite the same thing as someone gunning down shoppers in a grocery store. And that is the case even if both things are bad, even if they are equally bad, and regardless of which may be worse. All that aside, they are still different.
 
How are the numbers stacking up this year? Blacks committing mass shootings against blacks, vs white racists committing mass shootings against blacks? I'm interested in assessing the greater threat to these communities. This way we can devote proper attention to the areas that will be of the greatest positive impact.

I think Bogative may be keeping a running tally?

Can't say for certain on the race of the victims because there are too many of them for me to keep track of, but with the one exception of Buffalo, every known trigger-puller during mass shootings with 10 or more victims this year have been black. I haven't done a tally for a while but I believe it is 15 shootings with at least 19 known shooters. There are at least seven shooters who have yet to be identified, possibly more.

Last night in San Bernardino, California there was a mass shooting with one person dead and eight injured. The shooting started after a fight during a high school graduation party and ended at a gas station across the street.

Eyewitnesses describe the victims as "teens." Some not-so-smart-cookies would not count this mass shooting because all of the people involved are allegedly criminals and gang-bangers and this was just another example of gang warfare, or something.

Judging by the video taken from the incident, I'm going to guess that the shooter didn't look anything like the Buffalo shooter or this thread would be three pages longer with the usual suspects decrying white people and how dangerous they make America for black people.
 
Criminals shooting each other is not quite the same thing as someone gunning down shoppers in a grocery store. And that is the case even if both things are bad, even if they are equally bad, and regardless of which may be worse. All that aside, they are still different.


Criminals shooting each other? I've been called a bigot and a racist for much less than that assumption you and other members on this board make very regularly.

The mass shooting with the largest casualty count this year occurred in Dumas, Arkansas during a rap concert. Two men, one black, one yet to be described by media or law enforcement, got into an argument and ended up in a gunfight. 27 people were injured, one of them was involved in the original argument. Authorities have said nothing about gangs, gang members, or gang violence relating to the two shooters or shooting.

Yet the shooting is hand waved as gang violence because the two shooters are black. It's race-based prejudice used to dismiss black criminality, kind of funny actually considering the point you're trying to make.
 
Frankly, I don't give a rats arse about Bogative's favorite mass shootings. They don't count anyway AFAIC - the perpetrators are generally criminals and gang members, and the victims are generally their criminal rivals and compatriots. Sometimes there is collateral damage, but not very often. If criminal gangs want to wipe each other out, who am I to complain - saves the taxpayers money IMV.

That is truly breathtaking.

It's not just racism in its purest form, it also avoids one of the main points of CRT - that black on black violence is a symptom of centuries of oppression.

Not to mention the pathetic hand-waving of "collateral damage" as fast as any Bush family member. I presume you can read things other than the nonsense you post, so maybe start with this: https://everytownresearch.org/report/the-impact-of-gun-violence-on-children-and-teens/

Black and Latinx children and teens are impacted by gun violence at higher rates than their white peers, in part because of deliberate policy decisions that created segregated neighborhoods and underinvestments in their communities.1 Exposure to gun violence has an impact on children’s and teens’ psychological and mental well-being and affects their school performance, among other factors. When neighborhoods and schools are not safe from gun violence, entire generations of American children are affected.

Even the extreme opposite view sees through it:

It's race-based prejudice used to dismiss black criminality, kind of funny actually considering the point you're trying to make.

Not often I agree with you, but in this case you are bang on the money.

I'd rather racists were openly racist than try to hide behind a veneer of "they were crooks".
 
I'm sure that by one measure Warp and Bogative could have a point, but it's not the same point.

If you want to compare black mass shootings of blacks with white mass shootings of blacks, it makes a difference whether you lump them all together or count who are the victims. Criminals shooting each other is not quite the same thing as someone gunning down shoppers in a grocery store. And that is the case even if both things are bad, even if they are equally bad, and regardless of which may be worse. All that aside, they are still different.

But Warp12 and Bogative want us to believe that there is no difference and that we should care equally about each, and they should be treated the same way. The problem with that type of thinking is that the causes are vastly different, and so are the solutions.

If gang members and criminals want to off other gang members and criminals, I say to them "fill ya boots"!! The less of them there are breathing oxygen, drinking water and stealing stuff, the better. Just don;t take out innocent bystanders.
 
So, let me put words in your mouth.

Let me quote what was said about these particular people of colour, since that is what bogative is mapping with those counts, to avoid confusion and accusations of "putting words" in ones "mouth".

They don't count anyway AFAIC - the perpetrators are generally criminals and gang members, and the victims are generally their criminal rivals and compatriots.

Those people, "don't count".

They. Don't. Count.

What we need to know is whether it is by dint of their colour or their chosen life style?

Whichever of the two it is, it's clear that the poster is happy with the regular execution of a subset of the human race. I think his mask slipped a bit there.
 
...snip...If gang members and criminals want to off other gang members and criminals, I say to them "fill ya boots"!! The less of them there are breathing oxygen, drinking water and stealing stuff, the better. Just don;t take out innocent bystanders.

Oh dear! In a thread about mass shootings that also discusses some deep seated sociopolitical reasons such shootings occur mostly in ethnic minority neighbourhoods too!

I can't say for sure but I'd bet you would have pitched in with an opinion about what leads and feeds into BoB violence, yet it appears, all along, that you'd happily watch the body count rack up.

Get out of here.
 
Ok, so you are saying that you only care about a very tiny percentage of the total number of blacks who are shot in mass shootings each year? And, in your view the vast majority of blacks who are shot in mass shootings had it coming, because they were involved in criminal activity at some level? I believe this is an accurate paraphrasing of the above, but if not please clarify.

I asked your buddy about the connection to skin colour but he ignored me. Can you answer this question?
 
I guess I stand somewhere in the middle here, and suspect (reread, restate more than suspect) I'm more in Bluesjnr's camp. I think Bogative and his friends are making a big mistake in considering these events to be usefully comparable. But I also think Smartcooky is off base. However unconcerned one might be about the specific victims of most black on black violence, its incidence is a serious social issue and a symptom of other issues to which I do not think we should remain indifferent.

Looking at two things differently is not the same as looking only at one.
 
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Nope, but if they want to, I will not shed a tear nor lose any sleep over it. It doesn't matter whether your skin is white, black, brown, red, yellow or orange...
Being a criminal is a choice! Taking drugs is a choice! Murdering others is a choice!


I never hear you talk about "Being a criminal is a choice" when we discuss black murder/crime rates, oddly. You seem to have every reason that "Being a criminal" is often not just a choice, but heavily influenced by external factors such as poverty.

As far as, "Taking drugs is a choice"...pretty much the same. First, there is such a thing as addiction science. Secondly, I can't really picture you promoting that idea with inner city blacks addicted to crack and other substances. It doesn't fit your usual narrative, at all.

But, ok, let's say that you consider mass shootings a choice. Fair enough. How about getting caught in the crossfire? Is that a choice also? How about if you are a gang member? Does that reduce the severity of the injury or death? Does it justify the result? Does it make it less of a real issue? Does it reduce the significance of the statistics? Not mention, the psychology of why people join gangs in the first place might be of interest to you. Hint: It must not be the reasons that you think.

At any rate, I find these revelations on your stance very enlightening.
 
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I never hear you talk about "being a criminal is a choice" when we discuss black crime rates, oddly. You seem to have every reason that "being a criminal" is often not a choice.

As far as, "Taking drugs is a choice"...pretty much the same. First, there is such a thing as addiction science. Secondly, I can't really picture you promoting that idea with inner city blacks addicted to crack and other substances. It doesn't fit your narrative, at all.

But, ok, let's say that you consider mass shootings a choice. Fair enough. How about getting caught in the crossfire? Is that a choice also? How about if you are a gang member? Does that reduce the severity of the injury or death? Does it justify the result? Does it make it less of a real issue? Does it reduce the significance of the statistics? Not mention, the psychology of why people join gangs in the first place might be interesting to you. Hint: It must not be the reasons you think.

At any rate, I find these revelations on your stance very enlightening.

You still need to show a connection between having dark skin and being a criminal.
 
I guess I stand somewhere in the middle here, and suspect (reread, restate more than suspect) I'm more in Bluesjnr's camp. I think Bogative and his friends are making a big mistake in considering these events to be usefully comparable. But I also think Smartcooky is off base. However unconcerned one might be about the specific victims of most black on black violence, its incidence is a serious social issue and a symptom of other issues to which I do not think we should remain indifferent.

Looking at two things differently is not the same as looking only at one.

I hate when a good post gets lost on the bottom of a page.

It isn't that street violence in black communities 'doesn't matter', it's that white supremacists and other lesser racists try to use this kind of violence to downplay and dismiss the greatest domestic terrorist threat in the US. The thesis is 'white terrorists attacks don't matter much because Chicago' with the more virulent racists putting in the implied 'and black people are worse than white people'.

It's also weird both to pretend racist policies haven't lead to an increase in street crime violence in black communities and that the only damn from all these white terrorist attacks and racism in general is the 'victim count'. Not even death count because as keeps happening, the racists count all wounded and killed the same.

False equivalency all the way down.
 
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