Today's Mass Shooting

[TurkeysGhost]

I saw an interesting bit on the Buffalo shooter tonight. It seems along with his usual idiocy, large parts of his manifesto are taken verbatim from the Christchurch shooter's screed. Lazy copycatting indeed.

I wouldn't call it copycatting per se, but rather placing himself in a political context.

Calling these kinds of people "lone wolf" shooters is kinda missing the point. The political right has co-opted the disaffected, angry young man demographic and has put their previously pointless mass shootings to their purpose. These lone stochastic terrorists rightly see themselves are part of a longer tradition and working towards a common purpose (white nationalism), so it makes sense to recycle and expand on the manifestos of prior mass killers.

This is going to be the norm for the foreseeable future. Suit-and-tie fascists like Tucker Carlson pump out hate propaganda to gin up the extreme right base, and every once and a while some young fascist with the courage of his convictions and nothing to lose is going to shoot up some mall, church, school, whatever, sacrificing their lives for the cause.

The only difference between this kid and the average fox news and facebook poisoned right winger that believes in "great replacement" theory is that this kid was willing to do something about it. That's a pragmatic, not ideological, distinction.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

It's a bit of feedback loop. The AR-15 is popular because it's cheap, widely available, and widely understood and supported by the US market. It was pretty unique when first designed decades ago, but there has been gobs of convergent evolution in the intervening times.

That said, if you waved your magic wand and made it disappear, its other less common, more expensive, and more exotic competitors would gradually become more popular, cheaper, and more understood to fill the void.

There's really nothing that special about the AR-15 that banning it alone would change much about the landscape beyond the very short term. The race to make the $600 AR-15 substitute would have many capable competitors.

Looks like future mass shootings will have less wounded, but many more dead.

 

[Dr.Sid]

It's a bit of feedback loop. The AR-15 is popular because it's cheap, widely available, and widely understood and supported by the US market. It was pretty unique when first designed decades ago, but there has been gobs of convergent evolution in the intervening times.

That said, if you waved your magic wand and made it disappear, its other less common, more expensive, and more exotic competitors would gradually become more popular, cheaper, and more understood to fill the void.

There's really nothing that special about the AR-15 that banning it alone would change much about the landscape beyond the very short term. The race to make the $600 AR-15 substitute would have many capable competitors.

Well nobody would want Americans to shoot each other with AKs, right ?

 

[shemp]

https://twitter.com/GovMurphy/status/1526217728561975300

Cue the expected and pitiful expressions of “thoughts and prayers” from those held so powerfully in the grip of the gun lobby.

I think every single one of them knows where they can shove their “thoughts and prayers.”

 

[Worm]

Fox host: It seems like these [shootings] have gotten so much worse since video games became so realistic and so violent

Video in link

https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1525974474234990594

and that is also true in those other countries where these games are available. Oh no wait, it absolutely hasn't. Still, never let facts get in the way of a good argument.

 

[Thermal]

It's a bit of feedback loop. The AR-15 is popular because it's cheap, widely available, and widely understood and supported by the US market. It was pretty unique when first designed decades ago, but there has been gobs of convergent evolution in the intervening times.

That said, if you waved your magic wand and made it disappear, its other less common, more expensive, and more exotic competitors would gradually become more popular, cheaper, and more understood to fill the void.

There's really nothing that special about the AR-15 that banning it alone would change much about the landscape beyond the very short term. The race to make the $600 AR-15 substitute would have many capable competitors.

As it is often noted, there's not a huge honking difference between an AR and a Mini-14 or any other mag fed semi. I think the gig has to move towards eliminating mag fed semis. Civilians simply don't need to spray bullets in large numbers like that.

Sure, it's fun. I rather like it myself, and appreciate not having to reload or manually chamber a round when plinking. But I rather like not having 18 year olds being able to commit mass murders with absolutely minimal effort, too. One priority outweighs the other.

 

[Kestrel]

As it is often noted, there's not a huge honking difference between an AR and a Mini-14 or any other mag fed semi. I think the gig has to move towards eliminating mag fed semis. Civilians simply don't need to spray bullets in large numbers like that.

Sure, it's fun. I rather like it myself, and appreciate not having to reload or manually chamber a round when plinking. But I rather like not having 18 year olds being able to commit mass murders with absolutely minimal effort, too. One priority outweighs the other.

California’s first assault weapons ban listed the banned weapons by model number. The industry responded by making minor changes are releasing the new gun with a new model number. The mounting points for the strap on a TEC-9 were moved to create the TEC-DC9. The next version of the law attempted to define the weapons using a list of feature. This definition ended up excluding the Mini-14. It probably should have been included because it is functionally the same.

The real problem is the combination of automatic or semi automatic action and high capacity magazines that cab be quickly swapped. Exactly the features that make these weapons so attractive to those who want to play army with real guns. Features that are not needed for uses like hunting or shooting sports.

 

[tyr_13]

*sigh* A local corrections officer posted a very tasteless joke about the shooting inside two hours of it, a bunch of other corrections officers did the laugh react, and that quite obviously pissed off a bunch of other people. The post was deleted, but the attitude of a lot of white Buffalo area residents towards the black ones is being pretty damningly exposed. Yet a bunch of other 'centrists' are still pretending there isn't a real problem there because so many other people are doing amazing work. Now, that is true. There was a lot of very effective and quick community outreach to help in a ton of ways that might not be obvious. This includes setting up pop-up food banks and cook outs for the residents of the neighborhood to use while that Tops is closed. A shuttle to another Tops location was also set up. Until that Tops was built there was no place to buy groceries within walking distance, making the area a food desert.

I can't figure out how a bunch of amazing people helping means that other people aren't racist asshats, but that's the claim.

And we have all the MAGA people refusing to believe that the great replacement is pushed by Trump and Tucker or that it is a mainstream belief in the GOP (about half of Republicans believe it by recent surveys, and about a quarter of Dems). They claim this even while making the same claims as the great replacement.

This is so ****** up.

 

[bruto]

As time goes on, my problem with the "great replacement" is not that it's an irrational fear, but that it couldn't happen soon enough.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
And we have all the MAGA people refusing to believe that the great replacement is pushed by Trump and Tucker or that it is a mainstream belief in the GOP (about half of Republicans believe it by recent surveys, and about a quarter of Dems). They claim this even while making the same claims as the great replacement.

This is so ****** up.

Gaslighting has become the norm in many countries and it's not confined to the losing political party.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

Looks like future mass shootings will have less wounded, but many more dead.

ninja'd

He has a follow up video in which he stresses that the new weapon would be armor piercing, making any encounter with criminals and terrorists a very different game for law enforcement, thus a purported sea change in attitudes toward gun control.

I have my reservations.

 

[newyorkguy]

A New York state correction officer has been suspended without pay after posting what New York's Corrections Department terms a "vile" Facebook posting. Not very funny, I'd say and yes, too soon. Way too soon.

 

[tyr_13]

Gaslighting has become the norm in many countries and it's not confined to the losing political party.

'How dare you accuse me of believing that vile conspiracy theory that is totally true and destroying our nation!'

A New York state correction officer has been suspended without pay after posting what New York's Corrections Department terms a "vile" Facebook posting. Not very funny, I'd say and yes, too soon. Way too soon.

Yup, that's the one. Various people have been saying the shooting was staged too, angry about, and I kid you not, Garth Brooks suspending ticket sales.

Buffalo is the most racially segregated city in the country and it's not exactly hard to see how that's going.

 

[JoeMorgue]

A 911 Dispatcher may be fired for hanging up on a caller reporting the Buffalo attack while it was still in progress.

An emergency services dispatcher in Buffalo could be fired after being accused by a supermarket employee of hanging up on a 911 call during a racist shooting rampage at the store last week.

The dispatcher, who has not been publicly identified, was placed on administrative leave on Monday after an internal investigation and faces a disciplinary hearing on May 30, at which “termination will be sought,” Peter Anderson, a spokesman for the Erie County executive, said on Wednesday.

New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/18/nyregion/buffalo-shooting-911-dispatcher.html

Rolling Stones: https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...ion-hanging-up-buffalo-shooting-call-1355799/

Non-paywalled source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/911-dispatcher-took-buffalo-shooting-call-put-leave-rcna29570

 

[Delphic Oracle]

A 911 Dispatcher may be fired for hanging up on a caller reporting the Buffalo attack while it was still in progress.




New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/18/nyregion/buffalo-shooting-911-dispatcher.html

Rolling Stones: https://www.rollingstone.com/cultur...ion-hanging-up-buffalo-shooting-call-1355799/

Non-paywalled source: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/911-dispatcher-took-buffalo-shooting-call-put-leave-rcna29570

If it was a cell phone, the "unclear who hung up" is a pointless distraction.

If you've ever called a dispatcher from a cell phone, you know that they get location services, ability to call back, and more. Perhaps it depends on jurisdiction, but my understanding is they must establish the situation is safe or roll units to the indicated location.

I even get overrides on my phone when I call the non-emergency number.

 

[Ranb]

Hmm. OK, I could be wrong about that one. Still, the point still remains that it's a trivial exercise to come up with a rimfire version of almost any round ever designed, especially rimmed ones, but not only, and the offset firing mechanism to make it work. If any law actually made just the position of the primer the issue, you'd see rimfire weapons in every calibre. Is all I'm saying.

While I could make a rimfire version of any centerfire cartridge, provided I also modified the firearm, why would I do that? A rimfire cartridge case needs to use brass soft enough to allow the firing pin to deform it and detonate the priming compound contained inside the outer part of the rim.

This greatly limits the pressure of the cartridge. Compare the rimfire 50 Remington Navy to the centerfire 50 Action Express. The older 50 Rem held 23 grains of black powder which was probably the max the case could handle without breaking. The 50AE will handle about 30 grains of smokeless powder at a far greater pressure. Smokeless powder is about three times more powerful than blackpowder.

A centerfire cartridge uses a primer in the center of the cartridge base and can use much harder brass alloys or even aluminum or steel. They are capable of withstanding far higher pressures than a rimfire case.

 

[catsmate]

Not sure why that would make a huge difference. I mean there are ways to limit it to .22 long rifle or such, but just whether it's rimfire or centerfire? Quite mainstream rimfire calibers include the 7.62x54mm Rimmed used by the semi-automatic Dragunov sniper rifle or variants like the Zastava M91 (and soviet belt-fed machine-guns), actually more powerful than the 7.62×51mm NATO. (And if you need THAT to fend off varmint, yeah, you probably got isekaid to a fantasy world with bear sized rats) And technically can go all the way up to the old 1" Gatling round, but I doubt that anyone would use those.

But in any case, if any law just said "rimfire is ok", then someone would just start making rimfire guns and cartridges in any caliber they wish. Want a rimfire .50? Someone can design one pretty quickly. Or any other caliber, really. It only needs a change in where the firing mechanism hits it, otherwise you can just take the existing design for both gun and ammo, and have it in production in a month.

At least that's what I'd do, if any state actually had a law that said you can buy rimfire weapons at 18 years old, but centerfire at 21. Well, then here's my new lineup of every caliber from 9mm to .357 to .44 to .45-70 to .50 AE to shotgun, changed to rimfire.

Rimmed ≠ Rimfire

 

[bruto]

Not a center-fire person myself, but it's my impression that rimfire cartridges are relatively hard to reload - not impossible but more trouble than most people consider it worth.

I somehow doubt that a change to rimfire would have much effect on mass shootings. I may be unduly generous in my suspicion that most reloaders are going to be target shooters and hunters, and mass murderers not so much, but as long as you can purchase ammo new, the mass murderers will get what they need. And even if accuracy and power are reduced, I'm sure a rimfire can spray enough death around to do the job.

I saw an amusing site the other night (wondering idly how hard it would be to reload a .22 LR), which, with some tongue in cheek, describes how it could be done, should we find ourselves stuck in the zombie apocalypse without enough store-bought:

https://www.ammoland.com/2015/11/reloading-22lr-ammo/#axzz7Tmo5S3fg

 

[Bogative]

But Chicago! follows up the Buffalo mass shooting with two killed and eight wounded after an argument in front of McDonald's turns into a gunfight.

The McDonald's and surrounding area has become a hotspot for violence.

Shootings have been spiking downtown all year. They are up 225% in the 18th District, which includes the McDonald’s. In the 1st District, which covers parts of downtown and the Loop, shootings are up 100%.

I'm not very familiar with Chicago, is that the maga country part of the city?

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/c...-killed-4-wounded-in-near-north-side-shooting

 

[tyr_13]

But Chicago! follows up the Buffalo mass shooting with two killed and eight wounded after an argument in front of McDonald's turns into a gunfight.

The McDonald's and surrounding area has become a hotspot for violence.

I'm not very familiar with Chicago, is that the maga country part of the city?

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/c...-killed-4-wounded-in-near-north-side-shooting

Oh, will you link to the manifesto of the shooter(s)' that show their terrorist attack was motivated by the racist theory that's mainstream in one of our two main political parties?

...No?

You mean, it wasn't a terrorist attack? Wasn't even connected to politics?

East side of Buffalo also wasn't MAGA country. The mainstream GOP dude who attacked Buffalo had to drive from MAGA country to get to where he murdered people in the name of the ideology you share with him.

I get that you want the terrorist attack to leave the news faster than celebrities slapping each other, but your objections just prove how important opposing the MAGA terrorists is.