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To the skeptical community from a fellow atheist, who just so happens to be female.

"I came because I love what we are about"
Was it as good for you as it was for me?

And to those that think that's sexist of me:
"don't ever believe the lie that us delicate girls cant take being hit on, cant keep up with the filthy jokes"
 
Awesome message.

I like the gist of "grow a pair" from this.

That is, respect ought to come out of our own accord, not cause we feel like we're walking on eggshells.

Edit:

I do have to add the most annoying thing I find sexist about girls in forums.

I despise when people act all shocked when a girl posts something insightful as if it's a surprise that a girl can be smart. Or something like "Wow beautiful and smart" as if girls were only capable of beauty and nothing else.

I find the surprise upon witnessing a girl's intelligence to be patronizing and insulting. And it has nothing to do with boys being boys and having our playful jests. It's flat out sexist.
 
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The real question is whether she is hot or not. Without knowing that, there's just no way to evaluate her opinion.
 
Joey McGee said:
http://www.mallorienasrallah.com/skeptic

Penn Jillette posted this on his facebook an hour ago along with the comment "I tweeted this and it's been sent to all the big cheeses at JREF. It's a POV that's been ignored."
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An ignored point of view? Give me a break. Elevatorgate didn't become a massive months-long controversy because nobody was taking the "everything's fine, there's no sexism in skepticism" side.
 
Kahalachan said:
Awesome message.

I like the gist of "grow a pair" from this.

That is, respect ought to come out of our own accord, not cause we feel like we're walking on eggshells.

Edit:

I do have to add the most annoying thing I find sexist about girls in forums.

I despise when people act all shocked when a girl posts something insightful as if it's a surprise that a girl can be smart. Or something like "Wow beautiful and smart" as if girls were only capable of beauty and nothing else.

I find the surprise upon witnessing a girl's intelligence to be patronizing and insulting. And it has nothing to do with boys being boys and having our playful jests. It's flat out sexist.
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I don't think that is limited to gals.

Having acted a good portion of my life, i have known some 10/10 gents, and the majority of these were not exactly brilliant, one was, and was constantly treated in the same fashion. ( myself, alas, has to get by on talent versus good looks.)

It has little to do with gender, and a lot to do with how people perceive folks that are in the higher echelons of looking good. Heck it doesn't even have to be good looking folks, us actors in general, even ones like myself are automatically tossed in the " flighty artist" camp, a good portion of the time. And not just by the general public, but directors, producers, etc.

Its a dick move , to be sure, but not one that only happens to females.
 
As a woman who has been here all along this is distressing to me, I love you guys for who you are, from my
table-top strategy gaming group though my political debate forum right in to the skeptical community. You have
never been anything but awesome and welcoming. Who made you think you weren't?
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Wait???? The table-top strategy gaming group is not sexist. I'm a grown man and even I'm pissed off at how much they tend to turn females into play objects and appeal to men. In fact it was going to be my go to response as to how products get marketed between the sexes.
 
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So whats that about the confustion about the tabletop strategy gaming hobby not being sexist?
 
'From thirty feet away she looked like a lot of class. From ten feet away she looked like something made up to be seen from thirty feet away.'


R Chandler.
 
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It seems like the post is attacking a straw man (or a straw feminist). What it appears to be arguing against is sexism in the name of fighting sexism, and I don't see that being a big problem.

I don't recall ever being told that I'm a bad person because I'm a guy. I don't recall being told that I should welcome women to the community by treating them like delicate snowflakes. I've seen a lot of mysoginistic behavior pointed out in the context of "hey, this kind of thing makes a lot of women uncomfortable" which is demonstrably true.

If I decide that not making people uncomfortable is a good thing I will work to change these behaviors in myself and those around me even if this specific person tells me I'm perfect just the way I am.
 
technoextreme said:
So whats that about the confustion about the tabletop strategy gaming hobby not being sexist?
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/eDREkl.jpg[/qimg]
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In all fairness in that same book there are half-naked men like the monk, and fully clothed bad-ass women like the cleric and the fighter. So it is not exactly a one sided portrayal of women having to show off flesh. Appealling to the sexual interests of your audience is not inherently sexist.

Not to say that there is no problem with sexism among tabletop gaming products and communities, there is, but at the least women are generally welcomed by the industry and communities. In my personal opinion the issues are usually the same as any male-dominated hobby.
 
The Fallen Serpent said:
In all fairness in that same book there are half-naked men like the monk, and fully clothed bad-ass women like the cleric and the fighter. So it is not exactly a one sided portrayal of women having to show off flesh. Appealling to the sexual interests of your audience is not inherently sexist.

Not to say that there is no problem with sexism among tabletop gaming products and communities, there is, but at the least women are generally welcomed by the industry and communities. In my personal opinion the issues are usually the same as any male-dominated hobby.
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On the other hand, I've experienced horrible amounts of sexist behavior in table-top gaming (I'm talking about my female character getting raped by her own party members, also taking an arrow in the gut for full damage in spite of some seriously-expensive heavy armor and being told said armor doesn't cover there). It's why I don't game with groups any more.

One reason it's a male-dominated hobby is because they don't market to women or girls at all. The few attempts I've seen were stripped-down Barbie versions featuring magic users in short pink skirts and female archers wearing a total of three rabbit skins.

Back on topic, have I noticed any such sexism in here? No, not to any notable degree. In fact, many of the known female posters are considered the most highly respected. Considering how hard it is to tell from a username what gender the poster is, I think most of us take a person's words at face value without making value judgments based on an unknown.

That said, of course there are a few bad apples in every bunch. A lot of them get kicked out for general *******-ness eventually.

FWIW, I'm female.
 
She expects me to try and *** her, but doesn't even include her phone number?

What a damn tease.
 
Niggle said:
On the other hand, I've experienced horrible amounts of sexist behavior in table-top gaming (I'm talking about my female character getting raped by her own party members, also taking an arrow in the gut for full damage in spite of some seriously-expensive heavy armor and being told said armor doesn't cover there). It's why I don't game with groups any more.
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I'm not denying individual happenings, but among the gaming circles I have been in for the past 20 years that is a pretty extreme and rare occurence. Most other gamers I know would kick out anyone who acted like that. It probably also helped that where I lived there were plenty of female gamers. By 1999 in our high school the cafeteria gaming group was probably about 2 to 1 male to female. Which isn't to say you had pretty bad experiences. That stuff definitely still does happen.

One reason it's a male-dominated hobby is because they don't market to women or girls at all. The few attempts I've seen were stripped-down Barbie versions featuring magic users in short pink skirts and female archers wearing a total of three rabbit skins.
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It all depends on what you consider to be female oriented marketing. When WOTC bought TSR they made a big push to make their products more gender neutral. The combat heavy dungeon adventuring probably appeals to fewer women due to cultural genderfication, but White Wolf's materials seemed to have a broader cross gender appeal. Even ignoring the frilly short skirt girly games like Sailor Moon and Revolutionary Girl Utena, games like Firefly, Buffy, Slayers had stronger female than male followings where I lived.

Back on topic, have I noticed any such sexism in here? No, not to any notable degree. In fact, many of the known female posters are considered the most highly respected. Considering how hard it is to tell from a username what gender the poster is, I think most of us take a person's words at face value without making value judgments based on an unknown.

That said, of course there are a few bad apples in every bunch. A lot of them get kicked out for general *******-ness eventually.

FWIW, I'm female.
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I know I cannot keep straight the genders of the posters here. Don't care doesn't matter is the way to approach gender in an online community (barring of course dating sites).
 
SOdhner said:
I don't recall ever being told that I'm a bad person because I'm a guy. I don't recall being told that I should welcome women to the community by treating them like delicate snowflakes. I've seen a lot of mysoginistic behavior pointed out in the context of "hey, this kind of thing makes a lot of women uncomfortable" which is demonstrably true.
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So what you're saying then is that being uncomfortable is a barometer of sexism?

When i was growing up, my own mother let me know she hated me because i was a man.

I've also had people threaten me on the internet that they would rape me with a blunt instrument because of my opinions.

But my mother hurt the worst and the internet bullies were just absurd.. neither of which really led me to think of "sexism" in any form or fashion but maybe they probably should have.. but i guess in my head i have a valid concern that sexism is too broad a paintbrush to describe the pain i went through with my mom as the same pain i experienced with some internet whacko.

thats why this whole discussion and this oddly "sound bitey" quote you made that i hear echo'd on skeptic blogs the internet over makes me sick to my stomach.


If I decide that not making people uncomfortable is a good thing I will work to change these behaviors in myself and those around me even if this specific person tells me I'm perfect just the way I am.
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That statement makes me uncomfortable ;)
 
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What the heck was that? Don't change? I am completely in the dark as to what the hell she's going on about. Then again people constantly think I'm a guy on here and no one treats me differently. Maybe she ought to stop talking about how she's a woman and "they" are men if she wants it to be a non issue. It wasn't even written very well.
 
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