To the skeptical community from a fellow atheist, who just so happens to be female.

[Drs_Res]

What's that Patty Hearst syndrome called when you start sympathizing with your oppressors?

Also - I wear body armor every day. I've never had anyone tell me I don't need to wear it because I have boobs. What do people think they're made of???

I think it would be interesting at TAM to have a bunch of women (and/or men) try & emulate the postures on eschergirls - just to show how ridiculous and impossible they actually are...(with more clothing, of course!).

Stockholm Syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

 

[John Albert]

Nope. Every single female in that book is showing her breasts. A heavily armored person sex should be indistinguishable outside of the face. And yes there is something inherently sexist in a game where everyone is supposed to be baddasses the females get treated like sex objects.

I don't get this. Why should it be everyone's fantasy to be armed to the teeth to the point of sexual ambiguity? Why would anyone equate genderlessness with sexual equity?

Dungeons and Dragons is about role-playing, and any well-run D&D campaign ought to allow just as much opportunity for feminine roles as there is for "badass" masculine ones. There's no rule of D&D that relegates all female characters to be masculine ass-kickers or else waifs in negligees like in a Joss Whedon TV show.

So you actually had the opportunity to play games which were 100% undeniable blatantly sexist like Dungeons and Dragons. Say what you want about the artwork which was pretty atrocious at least there aren't rules saying that women can't do everything men can.

What else does a game consist of, beyond its rules, it's equipment and its players?

I could understand making the argument that many—or even most—players of Dungeons and Dragons might be sexist, but that's an opinion and not a fact. In the final analysis, I suppose it all comes down to which players you happen to personally associate with. I haven't found sexism to be the case at all among any of the people I played with, but then again I haven't so much as touched a d20 in over 15 years, so I'll concede that the "culture" of that "scene" may have changed in that time.

 

[The Norseman]

I could understand making the argument that many—or even most—players of Dungeons and Dragons might be sexist, but that's an opinion and not a fact. In the final analysis, I suppose it all comes down to which players you happen to personally associate with. I haven't found sexism to be the case at all among any of the people I played with, but then again I haven't so much as touched a d20 in over 15 years, so I'll concede that the "culture" of that "scene" may have changed in that time.

I've been GMing and playing fairly consistently over thirty years and the culture has definitely changed -- for the better. There is far, far less discrimination and much more equality in published materials and in general group behavior.

I have always thought of sexism in RPG gaming to be similar to sexism in chess. The rules themselves do not support it, nor encourage nor condone it; any instances are down to the players themselves.

 

[technoextreme]

I don't get this. Why should it be everyone's fantasy to be armed to the teeth to the point of sexual ambiguity? Why would anyone equate genderlessness with sexual equity?

Because you're wearing armor??? Have you ever actually seen an armored female versus an armored male in military garb? It really is nothing more than the equivalent armor in D&D (Plate Mail) but surprise surprise only the males in the artwork have anything appearing normal.

 

[sgtbaker]

However this "Look at me I'm like a guy you can tell me all day how you want to jam me up my guava!" comes across as completely insecure, gonna strap on a pair of ken doll balls and pretend I'm down with the homies. Last I checked guys didn't high five each other and talk sex on an atheist forum.

Or, she could just really like the attention and feels like it's being threatened by another woman asking the behavior to be adjusted accordingly. I find it ironic that in one sentence she's asking not to be treated differently because she is a woman, yet in another sentence she professes that she loves being treated differently because she's a woman "don't stop trying to **** me..." That is, unless all the people that are trying to **** her are trying as equally hard to **** all the guys.

 

[John Albert]

Because you're wearing armor??? Have you ever actually seen an armored female versus an armored male in military garb? It really is nothing more than the equivalent armor in D&D (Plate Mail) but surprise surprise only the males in the artwork have anything appearing normal.

I didn't ask why should body armor cover her whole body. I asked why should an armor-clad fighter be the only kind of role acceptable for a female to play in a D&D game, and besides that, why should it be generally assumed that a female fighter wearing armor should have her midriff exposed?

To me is just sounds like a lack of imagination or lousy role playing on the part of the player, and/or douchebaggery on the part of the GM. In other words, it's not at all the fault of the game itself.

 

[Joey McGee]

Well maybe the JREF isn't so ignorant to this issue after all?


http://www.randi.org/site/index.php...-inside-entwine-the-claim-with-the-cause.html

New thread started here.

 

[Furcifer]

chicks post here?

Yep. They usually get chased away or made mods.

 

[Myriad]

What's that Patty Hearst syndrome called when you start sympathizing with your oppressors?

Evidence that Ms. Nasrallah is suffering from Stockholm Syndrome? Evidence that she's expressing a false opinion to gain favor with others?

I'm sure such evidence must be abundant. (Because attempting to dismiss her point of view by insinuating that she's not mentally capable of having a valid point of view, or attempting to accuse her of lying about her opinion due to a secret ulterior motive, without such evidence, would be tactics doomed to failure in a skeptical discussion.) So, please share.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[bookitty]

We can't ignore nice and friendly responses (har har) that PZ is notorious for now can we?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/2012/01/the-straw-woman-of-the-skeptical-movement/

Your link goes to Jen McCreight's Blag Hag blog which is hosted on Freethought Blogs which is also home to P.Z. Myers. There were several different responses to this email on FTB.

ETA:
Jerks love being reassured that being a jerk is OK
Mallorie Nasrallah says “I like it when #mencallmethings”
Jumping on the sexism train. Again.
Love letters to the status quo
Negotiables

 

[bookitty]

Or, she could just really like the attention and feels like it's being threatened by another woman asking the behavior to be adjusted accordingly. I find it ironic that in one sentence she's asking not to be treated differently because she is a woman, yet in another sentence she professes that she loves being treated differently because she's a woman "don't stop trying to **** me..." That is, unless all the people that are trying to **** her are trying as equally hard to **** all the guys.

Personally, I think it's great that Mallorie Nasrallah has found a community that supports her needs. I wish her experience was universal. As it is not, perhaps it would be better if she would simply speak for herself and allow other women to do the same.

If, for example, someone decided that TAM was the perfect venue for a new collection of upskirt photos, they've got Mallorie to provide them with justification. "but I'm a skeptic and she said not to change, not for her, not for anyone!"