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Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

I didn't say you misquoted it. That's your mischaracterization yet again. I said you didn't cite it:

I know who he is as I posted his actual name and his 2 pseudonyms in my post. That you would quote this delusional nutcase as some kind of evidence was the point of my comment.


:lol2:



You did not post a link to it. Period. Adding "~NA" is not a citation.

Convention in the use of acronyms or initials. The first usage should be spelt out in full and thereafter, you can use the acronym or initials.

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:words:

You have been provided numerous media articles and Mignini's own blackout withdrawal order that the news Guede was a fourth suspect was made public on Nov. 19. Period. You can try to misdirect from that all you want with claims of time changing but the fact remains: Guede's name was released well before "lunchtime" on Nov. 20 which is what you have been claiming. Therefore, her knowledge of his name when she spoke to her father that morning is completely reasonable and not inculpatory in any way.

Do you have any evidence the Perugia police consulted with the three suspects in custody as to what their police plans were or how their investigation was progressing? Did AK have a TV in her room? The attempts by Benedetti and detectives to entice Guede to return to Milan, I can guarantee were top secret and not shared with the defence. On the evening of the 19 Nov 2007, Napoleoni and co raced up to the border to apprehend Guede when he crossed the border, Benedetti having promised to meet him there.. The German police got him first. Guede was then interrogated.

Then Mignini signed off Lumumba's release.



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Tell us, Vixen, is there, or is there not, video of the bra clasp being collected with dirty gloves?

A massive sleight of hand. The so-called speck could just as easily be a shadow. As the latex gloves are ipso facto sterile when put on there is zero way Sollecito's DNA could have got onto the glove and then transferred to the inner bend of the bra hook. When the forensic police went in, the whole operation was witnessed by the defence observers in a live stream van outside. The cops in the van said the defence witnesses started creating a fuss straight away. That is their job. It is what they are paid to do. The issue of contamination was ruled out by Massei and Nencini using top geneticist experts. Hellman appointed Conti & Vecchiotti egregiously and unusually. Chieffi Supreme Court criticised Hellmann for failing to explain why he appointed new independent expert witnesses when the Massei ones were equally well-qualified and possibly more so, as court protocol required him to explain his rationale for their appointment. C&V were caught red-handed by the Carabinieri compiling a secret DVD to aid the defence. Yes, the Carabinieiri screamed up to C&V's office to confiscate their illicit DVD. Hellmann was FORCED to summons C&V before him to explain themselves (he had to, their having been caught by the military police). As you know, during a live trial or appeal, ALL parties are entitled at every stage to know what is happening. C&V did not make an application to the Court to initiate a DVD for the defence, and the prosecution had the legal right to object to such an application. C&V were advocating for the defence, when they were supposed to be independent. C&V were advised by shady characters in the USA, their report riddled with references to, for example, a US County Traffic Handbook, plus C&V were arguing US standards were not applied, as if US standards were superior to Italy's when they are not. This is why Chieffi called C&V intellectually dishonest. And sent the issue back but this time with a new court all together (Nencini).

So the defence's golden calf the so-called 'dirty glove' haha, is a complete defence legerdemain, not dissimilar to the OJ Simpson glove derail.


It's bollocks, as at no stage did they make any effort to explain what path a contamination could take in that specific scenario. Remember, the court's function is to make a decision. Hellmann was excoriated for talking about 'possibilities', completely inexperienced in Serious Crime cases, and, like one poster here, brushed off each piece of evidence one by one, piecemeal, instead of looking at ALL of the evidence as a whole and only when ALL of the evidence has been presented. In fact, Hellmann started his summing with 'Anything is possible!' Totally bent or incompetent. Or both.




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To tell her she couldn't get hold of Mez on her phone. She wanted Filomena to find the body.
This makes zero sense. Why didn't Amanda and Raffaele just go ahead with their planned trip, with Amanda sending Meredith (and Filomena and Laura) periodic texts about what a great time they were having? Then, assuming the body hadn't been found by Saturday afternoon, Amanda could have called Filomena and said she was very worried because Meredith hadn't returned her calls or texts and wasn't answering.
 
I think the whole point being missed is that Knox didn't know the 'fourth person's' name as of the time Curt Knox was visiting, is what John Follain is implying. When she asked Curt Knox, is his name Rudy, when he replies he doesn't know yet, she quickly says she saw the name on TV. Hmmm.
Follain's quote is this:

… so there must be a mistake … and [Ghirga] told me: OK, we’ll say it was a mistake.’ Amanda continued: ‘And then [Ghirga] asked me at what level I know this other man … this Rudy. Is that his name, Rudy?’ Curt replied no one had said anything yet about his name. Amanda told him the TV had given his name.
He took that directly from the SUMMARY written by the police of the exchange, not from the actual transcript which is not the same:

E poi lui (l'avvocato) mi ha chiesto a che livello conosco quest'altro uomo...questo Rudy?", chiede Amanda al padre.
Il padre risponde che non hanno ancora detto niente in proposito.
Amanda invece lo informa che lo hanno detto alla televisione.
Translation:
And then he (the lawyer) asked me how well do I know this other man...this Rudy?" Amanda asks to her father.
The father replies that they have not yet said anything about it.
Amanda instead informs him that they said it on television.
But that is NOT what the actual transcript says:

follain v transcript.JPG

AMANDA: Umm…he asked me how well I knew... this other guy
CURT: Yes
AMANDA: Rudy, this guy called Rudy
CURT: They haven't said the name yet
AMANDA: Oh, they said it on TV

Whoever summarized the exchange did not do so accurately. Knox did NOT ask "Is that his name, Rudy?’"
As previously pointed out, the transcript doesn't use periods, but it does use questions marks when something is a question. There's no question mark after Knox's comment about Rudy.
 
To tell her she couldn't get hold of Mez on her phone. She wanted Filomena to find the body.
If she wanted Filomena to find the body then why didn't she go to Gubbio and let Filomena come home, find the break-in and call the police instead of Raffaele calling 112? And please, do NOT give us that rubbish about the police just not seeing those two calls along with the other 3 made between 12:35 and 1:00.

Use some logic.
 
A massive sleight of hand. The so-called speck could just as easily be a shadow. As the latex gloves are ipso facto sterile when put on there is zero way Sollecito's DNA could have got onto the glove and then transferred to the inner bend of the bra hook. When the forensic police went in, the whole operation was witnessed by the defence observers in a live stream van outside. The cops in the van said the defence witnesses started creating a fuss straight away. That is their job. It is what they are paid to do. The issue of contamination was ruled out by Massei and Nencini using top geneticist experts. Hellman appointed Conti & Vecchiotti egregiously and unusually. Chieffi Supreme Court criticised Hellmann for failing to explain why he appointed new independent expert witnesses when the Massei ones were equally well-qualified and possibly more so, as court protocol required him to explain his rationale for their appointment. C&V were caught red-handed by the Carabinieri compiling a secret DVD to aid the defence. Yes, the Carabinieiri screamed up to C&V's office to confiscate their illicit DVD. Hellmann was FORCED to summons C&V before him to explain themselves (he had to, their having been caught by the military police). As you know, during a live trial or appeal, ALL parties are entitled at every stage to know what is happening. C&V did not make an application to the Court to initiate a DVD for the defence, and the prosecution had the legal right to object to such an application. C&V were advocating for the defence, when they were supposed to be independent. C&V were advised by shady characters in the USA, their report riddled with references to, for example, a US County Traffic Handbook, plus C&V were arguing US standards were not applied, as if US standards were superior to Italy's when they are not. This is why Chieffi called C&V intellectually dishonest. And sent the issue back but this time with a new court all together (Nencini).

So the defence's golden calf the so-called 'dirty glove' haha, is a complete defence legerdemain, not dissimilar to the OJ Simpson glove derail.


It's bollocks, as at no stage did they make any effort to explain what path a contamination could take in that specific scenario. Remember, the court's function is to make a decision. Hellmann was excoriated for talking about 'possibilities', completely inexperienced in Serious Crime cases, and, like one poster here, brushed off each piece of evidence one by one, piecemeal, instead of looking at ALL of the evidence as a whole and only when ALL of the evidence has been presented. In fact, Hellmann started his summing with 'Anything is possible!' Totally bent or incompetent. Or both.




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Guilters being boot lickers and mouthpieces for the prosecution has consequences. One consequence of this is hypocrisy where guilters attack people for doing something but have no issue if the prosecution do the same thing. This post repeats the constant claim C&V were bent but guilters slavishly supporting corrupt prosecutors. Guilters attacks C&V for being dishonest whilst ignoring the numerous instances when the prosecution were dishonest. The prosecution fed false information to the media about the bleach receipts, showering in a bloody bathroom, a washing machine was running when the police arrived and a missing Harry Potter book. Stefanoni lied in court saying the footprints were not tested with TMB when they were not. Stefanoni lied in court saying she changed gloves when it was proved on video she lied. Amanda was lied to she had HIV. Comodi lied to Amanda in court asking why she called her mother at 12.00 pm when phone records showed she called her mother at 12.47 pm.

Lies & Misinformation

List of Prosecution and Press lies told about Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito | Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito

The prosecution engaged in the massive suppression of evidence.

  • The prosecution hid the results of early and decisive DNA testing excluding Sollecito as the sexual assailant, securing on improper grounds the pretrial incarceration of Sollecito and Knox (and Lumumba) to the severe prejudice of the defense.
  • The prosecution concealed the initial results for tests performed on the two key items of evidence , i.e., the kitchen knife (Rep. 36B) and the bra-clasp (Rep. 165B), and instead, produced only the results of suspicious “do over” tests (reruns), without disclosing the data from the initial tests or even the fact that the subsequent tests are “do overs”.
  • The prosecution concealed that the kitchen knife profile was generated within a series of tests for which 90 percent of the results have been suppressed, strongly suggesting the occurrence of a severe contamination event that the prosecution continues to hide.
  • The prosecution claims that contamination of the bra clasp was impossible, even though the bra clasp profile was processed during a series of tests for which there is documented proof of contamination.
  • The prosecution falsely portrayed the DNA lab as pristine and perfectly maintained, even though the lab’s own documents demonstrate that it was plagued with repeated contamination events and machine malfunctions that were known to the lab.
  • The prosecution has withheld the results from a massive number of DNA tests (well over 100), including probably exculpatory profiles relating to the sexual assault and the secondary crime scene downstairs.
  • The prosecution has hidden all of the records of the DNA amplification process—the most likely place for laboratory contamination to have occurred—including all of the contamination control tests for this process.
Could Vixen explain why would a prosecution with strong evidence need to resort to the tactics described above. Vixen attacks C&V for being dishonest whilst being dishonest in her posts. Here are falsehoods regarding the knife

Post dated 10.05.2016

Claim: Only one was of sufficient quality to produce a near full profile (15 alleles : legal standard UK =10) of the murder victim, Mez.

Truth: The prosecution never claimed there were 15 alleles on the knife.

Post dated 11.05.2016

The defence on all sides have agreed without challenge that the DNA on the knife did indeed yield a near perfect profile of Mez.

Truth: The defence teams have never accepted there was a full DNA profile of Meredith on the knife and there is no record of this.
 
Some crimes do not have a SoL. You did note how Hellmann was forced to 'take retirement' after freeing the pair?
Yet another (habitual) mischaracterization. Hellmann CHOSE to retire because of the way his fellow judges were behaving toward him after the acquittal, not because he was under any kind of investigation for a crime:
« I was practically forced . Our decision was greeted with reactions of indignation . I still remember the whistles and shouts of a claque that had gathered in front of the court the evening of the verdict. From the next day I felt surrounded by growing hostility . In the bars of Perugia they said that I had sold out to the Americans, that I had given in to pressure from the CIA. Nonsense, of course, but what struck me most about the defamatory lynching that had lasted for years was the reaction of my fellow magistrates . Almost all of them stopped greeting me . In particular, those who in various capacities had been involved in the affair. I realized that that of my Court had been a voice out of the chorus in a court where all the judges , starting from the preliminary hearing judge to those of the various re-examinations, while criticizing the investigation, had endorsed the accusation . Furthermore, I was in the running for the presidency of the Tribunal and naturally that position was assigned to another colleague who was certainly very worthy, but I had some suspicions that it was a retaliation ".
 
This makes zero sense. Why didn't Amanda and Raffaele just go ahead with their planned trip, with Amanda sending Meredith (and Filomena and Laura) periodic texts about what a great time they were having? Then, assuming the body hadn't been found by Saturday afternoon, Amanda could have called Filomena and said she was very worried because Meredith hadn't returned her calls or texts and wasn't answering.


Their plans were kyboshed by the Postal Police turning up unexpectedly*. The claimed planned trip to Gubbio was just a pretext IMV. AK had been up since 5:00am and Sollecito lied when he said he slept until 10:00am as he picked up a the message from his father - who rang at circa 11:00pm the night before (except his phone was switched off**) not long after 5:00am also. Lied to police about this. When AK switched on her phone seven hours after getting up, at 12:07pm, she quickly rang each of Mez' phone, allowing just a few rings, with no chance of anyone being able to pick up. One went to voice mail. So having done a cursory ringing of Mez' phones, which had been removed to stop Mez from calling for help, and whoever stole them, knew she had two, AK then rang Filomena to say she was worried (despite her phone not being available should Mez be calling for help as she had only just switched it on from being turned off since 20:45 the night before). So, Filomena urged her to go back to the cottage to check and to let her know what was happening. AK did not call back. Filomena had to ring her. It was only then AK told Filomena her window was broken. Filomena told her to call the police. AK did not. Having told Filomena her window was broken, AK had to wait for Filomena to return home. She was at a festival and with the three others. This was about 12:24. At 12:30 - 35 the Postal Police turned up, and thus began a chain of events that meant AK and RS had to shelve their plan to be fifty miles away when the body was found. RS then called his sister circa 12:54 and the Carabinieii shortly after that. They turned up 1:30pm. The claim RS rang before the Postal Police arrived is obviously untrue as it would not take them one hour to arrive.

*The big mystery is how the Postal Police were onto the case so quickly. I mean, when you lose your phone and someone hands it in, they don't usually come around to your house pronto to return them.

**Note one of the defendants in the Sycamore Gap case had his phone switched off for the duration of the crime, because he falsely believed that lack of a signal from his phone would prove his innocence. Bryan Kohberger also switched off his phone during the Idaho 4 murders, as did Jody Arias when she drove on her way to butcher Travis.



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That cannot be correct as Mez did NOT have her throat cut. She was STABBED in the neck.

The throat area is at the front. Sheee-eeesh!
Oh, good lord. A wound 8 cm deep, 8 cm long and 0.4 cm wide looks like her throat was sliced open with a knife! Pedantry at its finest.
 
If she wanted Filomena to find the body then why didn't she go to Gubbio and let Filomena come home, find the break-in and call the police instead of Raffaele calling 112? And please, do NOT give us that rubbish about the police just not seeing those two calls along with the other 3 made between 12:35 and 1:00.

Use some logic.

Filomena was due to come back that day after having been away for the All Souls Bank Holiday. So AK had to have an excuse for the window being smashed, yet having supposedly taken a shower, with a bathroom still wet. She was likely still cleaning with the mop. The mop was needed for the flooding in RS' kitchen the night before when RS had to dismantle the U-bend on his sink, or according to him, it suddenly fell off whilst he was washing up after dinner. So she needed to explain why she went there - she claims - for the mop at all, so she concocted a story of having to zoom from the bathroom to her room on a towel having taken a shower in the dark without heating and without a light in her room, as it was on the floor in Mez' room. It was just as quick for her to try Mez' door if she was really worried about her whereabouts. She claims the front door was swinging open yet didn't mention it to RS for another hour or so - is their story - so they then both went back and claimed to have banged on her door.

AK probably had the clever idea to call Mez' phone to preclude 'knowing she was dead' which a lot of criminals do, they think that by ringing the person they killed earlier, later, it gives them the alibi that they 'can't have known that person was dead'. So she quickly rang Mez' phones one just a few seconds and the other slightly longer. So alibi established, Mez' phone rung. Proves AK did not know she was deceased.

Next, better let Filomena know she was worried or it'd look a bit strange to piss off for the day after seeing all of that suspicious stuff. As criminals aren't wont to call the police to their own crimes, it made sense to have someone else find the body. So, having told Filomena her window was broken, couldn't really go off until Filomena arrived back home, and she said she was on her way. Perhaps they could have driven off anyway but then the Police turned up, much to their surprise.



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Guilters being boot lickers and mouthpieces for the prosecution has consequences. One consequence of this is hypocrisy where guilters attack people for doing something but have no issue if the prosecution do the same thing. This post repeats the constant claim C&V were bent but guilters slavishly supporting corrupt prosecutors. Guilters attacks C&V for being dishonest whilst ignoring the numerous instances when the prosecution were dishonest. The prosecution fed false information to the media about the bleach receipts, showering in a bloody bathroom, a washing machine was running when the police arrived and a missing Harry Potter book. Stefanoni lied in court saying the footprints were not tested with TMB when they were not. Stefanoni lied in court saying she changed gloves when it was proved on video she lied. Amanda was lied to she had HIV. Comodi lied to Amanda in court asking why she called her mother at 12.00 pm when phone records showed she called her mother at 12.47 pm.

Lies & Misinformation

List of Prosecution and Press lies told about Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito | Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito

The prosecution engaged in the massive suppression of evidence.

  • The prosecution hid the results of early and decisive DNA testing excluding Sollecito as the sexual assailant, securing on improper grounds the pretrial incarceration of Sollecito and Knox (and Lumumba) to the severe prejudice of the defense.
  • The prosecution concealed the initial results for tests performed on the two key items of evidence , i.e., the kitchen knife (Rep. 36B) and the bra-clasp (Rep. 165B), and instead, produced only the results of suspicious “do over” tests (reruns), without disclosing the data from the initial tests or even the fact that the subsequent tests are “do overs”.
  • The prosecution concealed that the kitchen knife profile was generated within a series of tests for which 90 percent of the results have been suppressed, strongly suggesting the occurrence of a severe contamination event that the prosecution continues to hide.
  • The prosecution claims that contamination of the bra clasp was impossible, even though the bra clasp profile was processed during a series of tests for which there is documented proof of contamination.
  • The prosecution falsely portrayed the DNA lab as pristine and perfectly maintained, even though the lab’s own documents demonstrate that it was plagued with repeated contamination events and machine malfunctions that were known to the lab.
  • The prosecution has withheld the results from a massive number of DNA tests (well over 100), including probably exculpatory profiles relating to the sexual assault and the secondary crime scene downstairs.
  • The prosecution has hidden all of the records of the DNA amplification process—the most likely place for laboratory contamination to have occurred—including all of the contamination control tests for this process.
Could Vixen explain why would a prosecution with strong evidence need to resort to the tactics described above. Vixen attacks C&V for being dishonest whilst being dishonest in her posts. Here are falsehoods regarding the knife

Post dated 10.05.2016

Claim: Only one was of sufficient quality to produce a near full profile (15 alleles : legal standard UK =10) of the murder victim, Mez.

Truth: The prosecution never claimed there were 15 alleles on the knife.

Post dated 11.05.2016

The defence on all sides have agreed without challenge that the DNA on the knife did indeed yield a near perfect profile of Mez.

Truth: The defence teams have never accepted there was a full DNA profile of Meredith on the knife and there is no record of this.


The washing machine had just finished a cycle when cops arrived.


1746747865258.png
 
Well, I'm way behind on the discussion about the timing of Guede's arrest in Germany, but just for the record here's a
Wayback Link to the original German Police Press release. The google translation reads:

As I said, just for the record ;)
The question was never about when Guede was arrested, but rather when the media first made public his name and that he was a fourth suspect. Vixen claims that information did not become public until around noon on Nov. 20 so Amanda using his name while talking to her father between 9:30-10:30 is somehow suspect. However, several media articles and Mignini's own blackout cancellation order on Nov. 19 disproves that. She just won't accept that because it disproves her claim.
 
Yet another (habitual) mischaracterization. Hellmann CHOSE to retire because of the way his fellow judges were behaving toward him after the acquittal, not because he was under any kind of investigation for a crime:


They knew he had deliberately thrown it. Someone said here's say, $2m to free them. It's a very easy thing to then adjudge, 'Anything is possible!' and free the pair. Plus appoint a couple of experts also bent.


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Oh, good lord. A wound 8 cm deep, 8 cm long and 0.4 cm wide looks like her throat was sliced open with a knife! Pedantry at its finest.

It was 8cm long UPWARDS. The killer savagely thrust the knife upwards several times. Upwards in the neck, not across the throat.


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You might need to rely heavily on such methods but you cannot force others to be like you.
You are not in charge of other people.

No, there is no 'fantasy' of a new trial. The truth is unchanging, which is something you fail to grasp. Being released from prison does not change the truth of what you did or didn't. Instead of living a lie, just get on with your life and stop cashing in on deception. If you are going to moan about mental health then maybe it is actually healthier to accept you did something horrible in your youth and then people might be more sympathetic and help with the healing, instead of turning up at the courts - not giving a toss about the calunnia conviction - but just wanting to screw vast lucrative sums of money out of the public from being infamous.

What would you rather have, dispose of your debt and sleep soundly in your bed or bribe your way out of jail knowing you cheated but now you have to paint a false face to the world of an Evil Prosecutor fairy tale for life.


From Othello: Act 3 Scene 3

Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed.

What is worth more, a good name, or getting out of jail early, with all of the evidence of your guilt still there on the books. No wonder, Houston, we have a problem!
Immediately after announcing that " You are not in charge of other people, " you proceed to tell Amanda what she should be doing and not doing.
You don't get to do that. Maybe it's time you realized she doesn't care what you think or say.
 
The question was never about when Guede was arrested, but rather when the media first made public his name and that he was a fourth suspect. Vixen claims that information did not become public until around noon on Nov. 20 so Amanda using his name while talking to her father between 9:30-10:30 is somehow suspect. However, several media articles and Mignini's own blackout cancellation order on Nov. 19 disproves that. She just won't accept that because it disproves her claim.

No, that doesn't make sense. Cops were carrying out a softly-softly approach to try to find out where Guede was, since his palm print was identified on 16 Nov 2007, using Benedetti as the 'friendly' go between with the detectives telling him what to say to RG on FB.

It makes no sense to let the whole world know in advance they were onto him before they arrested him. They had to coax him via Benedetti to get on the freaking train to Milan. They weren't going to risk alerting him he was about to be nabbed!
 
So we are moving on from the ad hominem logical fallacy to the teeth-gritting insufferable tu quoque one? As if Napoleoni's accessing of rivals' records in an acrimonious divorce a few years ago cancels out Vanessa Sollecito's interference in a police investigation.

Do you understand why tu quoque is a PITA argument?

Think about why ad hominem and tu quoque are much loved in the playground but disdained by grown adults.
Provide evidence of "Vanessa Sollecito's interference in a police investigation," or stop claiming it.

The rest of your post is nothing but yet another attempt to redirect from your failure to provide any evidence. It does not go unnoticed. Nor does your repeated failure to answer several questions directly put to you.
 
Immediately after announcing that " You are not in charge of other people, " you proceed to tell Amanda what she should be doing and not doing.
You don't get to do that. Maybe it's time you realized she doesn't care what you think or say.


AK is not a poster on this list being told what she can or can't think.



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