Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 32

[Vixen]

The article's time stamp corresponds to 6:10 pm (18:10 0n 24-hour clock) Italian time on 19 November 2007. Note that it also corresponds to 12:10 pm in New York on that date (19 November 2007). That's the same time and date as the ABC news article that named Rudy Guede as the person sought by the Italian police. However, in the Reuters article, possibly to avoid a legal issue, the person sought is not named. Instead, the article states that Italian media have identified the suspect, and that details of the evidence against him have been leaked and published in the media:

Whilst you admit the mainstream news outlets and agencies such as the US-based Reuters do NOT name Guede on 19 Nov 2007, and the US news outlet ABC News is at least six hours behind Italian time, or up to eleven hours behind if based in PNW time zone. Even if for argument's sake, we accept that some provincial Italian news outlets 'leaked' the name 'Rudy Hermann Guede', the earliest this [presumed] leak would have been would be around19:00, 19 Nov 2007, in the evening. As it was NOT official news as of this time, there is no way it appeared on Italian national TV news, where a bunch of inmates at Capanne Prison were sitting around watching. TV News is not something mostly lower-class inmates would be watching. The idea is utterly absurd.

According to Knox's memoir Free: My Search for Meaning, a television was available to the women inmates at the prison for group viewing and viewing TV was a popular activity among them.

Are you saying AK is claiming in her hagiography, in which she recounts, via a ghost writer, that she watched Guede's name being read out in the evening news?

Here's an example of the Italian media coverage from 19 November 2007. It specifically names Rudy Guede.



In summary, Vixen's claim that Knox could not have known Rudy Guede's name as the "fourth suspect" in the case on 20 November 2007 is clearly false. In fact, Guede's name and photo had been lawfully released to the media (and thus to the public) on 19 November 2007 by a legal notice signed by the prosecutor, Mignini, on 19 November 2007. Indeed, that document provides the reason for the media release as the fact that Guede's name and photo had already been published by ANSA and other Italian media.

Here's the ABC News short summary as presented by a search engine today (9 May 2025); the time given is (I assume) for New York, but adjusted for Eastern Daylight Time; the actual time on 19 November would have been 12:10 pm Eastern Standard Time. If it were for Perugia, it would have been 12:10 pm in Perugia (Italy also observes a time change - advancing the clock one hour for summer). New York Eastern Standard Time is 6 hours behind (earlier) than the standard time in Italy.



Sources:

https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1930704120071119/

Rudy Guede, ecco il quarto uomo Patrick vicino alla scarcerazione

IL GIALLO DI PERUGIA

www.quotidiano.net

I am not convinced AK had that name. If anyone told her, it'd be her lawyer, not the TV. She already knew it was Guede because she had discussed a 'fourth person' with her lawyer earlier - as mentioned in the transcript - and seemed to know exactly whom he was talking about. Mignini also believed that AK named Lumumba because she knew it was really Guede.

Mignini signed a warrant for Patrick's release from jail; the case against the owner of Le Chic had clearly collapsed. In his warrant, the prosecutor wrote that Amanda may have blamed him for the murder in order to protect Rudy. As far as Mignini was concerned, he had done his job. The law demanded that a prosecutor should be impartial, looking for evidence both against a suspect and in his favour. He must also be ready to free a suspect if new evidence came to light to clear him. Mignini had been convinced that he had no choice but to arrest Patrick after Amanda's accusation, and now, when the investigation showed Patrick's alibi had been backed by several witnesses, he released him. ~ John Follain re 19 Nov 2007, evening.

As we know, Marasca-Bruno in the final and definitive Supreme Court verdict, upheld the fact AK criminally named Lumumba to cover up for Guede.


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[Vixen]

Quote an ad hominem fallacy from any of my posts.


I made no such claim. That's just your usual selective reading comprehension, in order to avoid addressing the actual issue. And the hilited still assumes facts not in evidence, your recent pretend attempt to provide evidence notwithstanding.

The fallacy here is yours, and it's special pleading^WP. You claim that Vanessa is "corrupt" because of her purported attempt to "interfere" in the murder investigation against her brother, when she was never even charged with, let alone convicted of, any such thing, and at worst dismissed from the Carabinieri. Yet you claim that Napoleoni is not corrupt, despite the fact that she was sentenced to prison for her criminal attempt to dig up dirt on her ex-husband to use in their custody case.


Do you understand why this isn't a tu quoque argument?


See above.

I did not say that Napoleoni was not corrupt. Citation, please. Being caught perusing the police computer without authorisation to try to gain negative information about some psychiatrist in her acrimonious divorce is a criminal offence (UK Police Records also have china walls put up). That does not mean Napoleoni was corrupt in every area of her life. You really do employ all kinds of fallacious reasoning.

YOU brought up the topic of Vanessa Sollecito, not me. She was sacked for disciplinary reasons. Directly trying to gather information on her brother's case.


Please tell me how you work out that Napoleoni's disgraceful behaviour re her divorce has anything whatsoever to do with this case and why you have come up with 'WHAT ABOUTISM' (= tu quoque). It is of zero relevance.




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[Myriad]

Judicial facts: yes, a judicial fact becomes a fact. Your entire life is based on judicial facts: your birth certificate, your parents' marital status, your marital status, your kids' dates of birth status and legal names. Your driving licence. All legal facts.

Judicial facts are facts in exactly the same way that chocolate kisses are kisses, family trees are trees, fruit of the loom is fruit, easy street is a street, bath bombs are bombs, devil dogs are dogs, jelly eggs are eggs, beer goggles are goggles, Texas tea is tea, a Nantucket sleigh ride is a sleigh ride, fool's gold is gold, Indian summer is summer, starfish are fish, mind games are games, fisher cats are cats, brake shoes are shoes, loan sharks are sharks, hand bras are bras, Adam's apples are apples, baker's dozens are dozens...

So if a court decides something is a fact, then I am afraid it becomes so.

The whole point of a trial is to test evidence for and against, employing independent expert witnesses by the court, if necessary, the defence always welcome to bring some of their own. After cross examination and weighing of the ALL merits, the panel of judges, including six permanent lay judges (in Italy) then have to deliberate and come to a verdict. That means it prefers one set of evidence over the others. There is the safety net of the appeal. In a criminal trial all parties have the right to present their case. But if you lose, no point continuing to tubthump your defence (or charges, if the prosecution) all that matters is what the court has decided.

So all that matters is that the Italian court system acquitted Knox and Sollecito of murder on appeal/review? Good to know.

What's this thread for?

 

[Vixen]

Judicial facts are facts in exactly the same way that chocolate kisses are kisses, family trees are trees, fruit of the loom is fruit, easy street is a street, bath bombs are bombs, devil dogs are dogs, jelly eggs are eggs, beer goggles are goggles, Texas tea is tea, a Nantucket sleigh ride is a sleigh ride, fool's gold is gold, Indian summer is summer, starfish are fish, mind games are games, fisher cats are cats, brake shoes are shoes, loan sharks are sharks, hand bras are bras, Adam's apples are apples, baker's dozens are dozens...



So all that matters is that the Italian court system acquitted Knox and Sollecito of murder on appeal/review? Good to know.

What's this thread for?

If you had been paying attention, Myriad, you would know they were acquitted under a rarely used loophole of 'insufficient evidence'. In other words, the facts the merits and appeal courts found remain facts. AK remains convicted of the serious crime of Calunnia, which the courts say she committed to cover up for Guede.


I know people don't like facing unpleasant facts but I suggest you read the final Motivations Report before you decide there is nothing to see here.


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.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... they were acquitted under a rarely used loophole of 'insufficient evidence'.

Imagine someone being acquitted merely because there wasn't the evidence to convict them. Astonishing the tricks these lawyers come up with.

 

[Numbers]

Whilst you admit the mainstream news outlets and agencies such as the US-based Reuters do NOT name Guede on 19 Nov 2007, and the US news outlet ABC News is at least six hours behind Italian time, or up to eleven hours behind if based in PNW time zone. Even if for argument's sake, we accept that some provincial Italian news outlets 'leaked' the name 'Rudy Hermann Guede', the earliest this [presumed] leak would have been would be around19:00, 19 Nov 2007, in the evening. As it was NOT official news as of this time, there is no way it appeared on Italian national TV news, where a bunch of inmates at Capanne Prison were sitting around watching. TV News is not something mostly lower-class inmates would be watching. The idea is utterly absurd.




Are you saying AK is claiming in her hagiography, in which she recounts, via a ghost writer, that she watched Guede's name being read out in the evening news?

View attachment 60709





I am not convinced AK had that name. If anyone told her, it'd be her lawyer, not the TV. She already knew it was Guede because she had discussed a 'fourth person' with her lawyer earlier - as mentioned in the transcript - and seemed to know exactly whom he was talking about. Mignini also believed that AK named Lumumba because she knew it was really Guede.




As we know, Marasca-Bruno in the final and definitive Supreme Court verdict, upheld the fact AK criminally named Lumumba to cover up for Guede.

Vixen, your post contains several false and/or misleading statements.

Here's another Italian media article that proves you are wrong in your argument about when the news about Rudy Guede being a suspect became known in the Italian media:

Omicidio Meredith: svelata l'identità del "quarto uomo"​

19/11/2007 15:43
Redazione


Rudy Hermann Guede: è il nome esatto del cosiddetto "quarto uomo",ricercato per l'omicidio di Meredith Kercher. Venti anni, nazionalitàivoriana, dovrebbe essersi trovato nel luogo del delitto la sera del1 novembre scorso, quando nel suo appartamento perugino è statauccisa la studentessa inglese Meredith Kercher. L'ivoriano èconosciuto a Perugia in quanto ha giocato nella squadra di basket'Nuova pallacanestro Perugia', nella stagione 2004-05, che alloramilitavanella serie C1. Il giovane, alto 1.79, ha giocato nel ruolodi guardia. Ora è ricercato con un mandato di catturainternazionale. Intanto sono cominciati stamani gli accertamentitecnici sui telefoni di Amanda Knox e Patrick Lumumba Diya perrisalire al testo del messaggio che i due si erano scambiati la nottedel delitto. Vengono eseguiti presso la polizia postale di Roma incontraddittorio tra le parti e alla presenza dei loro consulenti. Lastudentessa di Seattle aveva riferito alla polizia che il musicistacongolese l'aveva avvisata con un sms che quella sera il suo pubsarebbe rimasto chiuso. Diversa la versione dello straniero, cheinvece aveva sostenuto di avere avvertito la giovane di non andare allavoro perche' non ce n'era bisogno. Il testo e' stato pero'cancellato e ora gli esperti della postale stanno cercando dirisalire a esso dalla memoria dei telefonini.​

Source:

Omicidio Meredith: svelata l'identità del "quarto uomo"

www.trgmedia.it

 

[Vixen]

Imagine someone being acquitted merely because there wasn't the evidence to convict them. Astonishing the tricks these lawyers come up with.

You might be surprised to know that the pair were acquitted under:

law
acquittal
proscioglimento da un’accusa acquittal of a charge

and not the usual

assoluzione - not guilty.

The former, proscioglimento is something reserved for preliminary courts and is roughly equivalent to the CPS saying there is insufficient evidence to prosecute or a pretrial hearing throwing the whole thing out due to a lack of Reasonable Prospect of Success, or the US version of 'insufficent 'probable cause'.


This is why Marasca-Bruno's MR is so egregious. That is the only way they could get the pair out of prison, even though they were found firmly guilty by the merits trial and the Nencini Appeal Court. (Nencini has now been promoted and is the head honcho of the Florence Courts - the one that threw out AK's latest appeal.)

But of course, AK and RS fans are just glad they are out. As if they were going to share any of their 'compo' with their supporters anyway.

Nota Bene: Colloquial terms such as 'acquitted' and 'exonerated' have a more precise legal meaning, and it is not correct to say they were 'exonerated', as AK likes to claim.

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[Vixen]

Vixen, your post contains several false and/or misleading statements.

Here's another Italian media article that proves you are wrong in your argument about when the news about Rudy Guede being a suspect became known in the Italian media:

Source:

Omicidio Meredith: svelata l'identità del "quarto uomo"

www.trgmedia.it

TRG Media is a Thompson Group and is clearly using US time, with the Italian article reproduced from elsewhere.


11/19/2007 3:43 PM
Editorial Staff


This date format is US date format and not European.
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[gabeygoat]

TV News is not something mostly lower-class inmates would be watching. The idea is utterly absurd.

That's some weird classism.

 

[Myriad]

So if a court decides something is a fact, then I am afraid it becomes so.

The whole point of a trial is to test evidence for and against, employing independent expert witnesses by the court, if necessary, the defence always welcome to bring some of their own. After cross examination and weighing of the ALL merits, the panel of judges, including six permanent lay judges (in Italy) then have to deliberate and come to a verdict. That means it prefers one set of evidence over the others. There is the safety net of the appeal. In a criminal trial all parties have the right to present their case. But if you lose, no point continuing to tubthump your defence (or charges, if the prosecution) all that matters is what the court has decided.

If you had been paying attention, Myriad, you would know they were acquitted under a rarely used loophole of 'insufficient evidence'. In other words, the facts the merits and appeal courts found remain facts. AK remains convicted of the serious crime of Calunnia, which the courts say she committed to cover up for Guede.


I know people don't like facing unpleasant facts but I suggest you read the final Motivations Report before you decide there is nothing to see here.

A court that evaluated the evidence and testimony presented at trial by both sides decided it's a fact that there was insufficient evidence for Knox's and Sollecito's murder accusations.

There was insufficient evidence. Fact, by your own criteria.

Unless you're trying to claim court rulings are facts unless you don't like them. As Wilbur often said, "that won't fly, Orville."

"The serious crime of calunnia?" Give me a break. Even if that were true (and given the EHCR case, the court hasn't completed the required process for a final conclusion of that), Americans (and people of all other nations) commit more serious crimes abroad every day, yet we don't see 32-part threads about them.

 

[Stacyhs]

This is Reuters earliest news and it does NOT name Guede. It refers to him as the fourth suspect. I don't care what crafty time stamps you put on your sources. Any date anomaly is a time zone issue.

https://www.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL1930704120071119/

That's the earliest REUTERS report. I've already posted several times that Mignini stated on Nov. 19 that ANSA and other journalists had already reported not only his name but his photo. Do you want to claim that Mignini is lying or that I've "backdated" that official court record?

"I don't care what crafty time stamps you put on your sources"

Now, you're accusing me of fraud...'bent'... just like you've accused every judge who found in favor of Knox and Sollecito or were defense experts or witnesses.

This Guardian article names Guede as the fourth suspect on Nov. 19, 14:17 (EST) which was 8:17 PM in Italy. MY time is 1:54, not 2:17.

Fourth Meredith suspect named by Italian police​

Tom Kington in Rome
Mon 19 Nov 2007 14.17 EST

A fourth suspect hunted in connection with the murder of British student Meredith Kercher was named today by Italian police as Rudy Hermann Guede, 21, originally from the Ivory Coast.

THIS Il Giornale article is the earliest release of the search for an "African fourth suspect" on Nov. 18 at 9:47 PM (it's 1:21 PM my time), the day before your article. While it doesn't name Guede, the person it refers to is pretty obvious from the details they give. Considering the number of people who had been interviewed by police specifically about Guede on Nov. 16 and 17, I doubt his name stayed secret among the reporters in Perugia until Nov. 20.

Meredith, the hunt for the fourth official is also abroad: he is African​

Small-time drug dealer with a criminal record, a regular at the nightclubs where foreign and Italian students who attend the university usually meet: this is the identikit of the wanted man who was in the home of the young English woman who was killed.

You can make false accusations of changing time stamps all you want, it does not change the fact that Guede's name was released on Nov. 19 not around "lunchtime" on Nov. 20 like you claim.

 

[Stacyhs]

The gesture for a stab and then thrust upward is VERY different from a cut throat one. The classic gangster 'permanent grin' was NOT seen here.

 

[Stacyhs]

The story is easily found on the internet and in RS' book, but please see one example here:

Cosmopolitan.com - The Women's Magazine for Dating Advice, Relationships, and Celebrity News

Your source for the latest dating tips, celebrity news, relationship help, beauty tutorials, fashion trends, and more.

www.cosmopolitan.com

I've got RS's book and he says nothing of the kind. In fact, he says what Vanessa wrote:

“You’re doing your job,” they acknowledged, “but not with a state of mind worthy of the carabinieri.”

Sollecito, Raffaele; Gumbel, Andrew. Honor Bound: My Journey to Hell and Back with Amanda Knox . Gallery Books. Kindle Edition.

And neither does Vanessa's article you linked to. THIS is what she wrote:

My bosses told me I could not talk to the press or make any public statements about my brother or the crime. This put me in a terrible position, caught between the family I love and the career I had worked so hard to achieve. Privately, I advised my brother, but publicly, I remained silent.

In the meantime, my bosses began trying to push me out. They said if I believed in my brother's innocence, I was contradicting the police. They tried to send me off on a "stress" leave; they cut my assignments. My colleagues grew scornful. I could see them watching me, taking notes. One day, I was told to turn over my pistol. Then I had to retake the exams I had taken to enter the military. In the spring of 2009, I was fired, accused of not having "the right attitude to work as a carabinieri."

NOWHERE does she say she was fired for " interference in a police investigation." Yet again, you are mischaracterizing what was actually said. Please stop doing that.

 

[Numbers]

TRG Media is a Thompson Group and is clearly using US time, with the Italian article reproduced from elsewhere.


11/19/2007 3:43 PMTa
Editorial Staff


This date format is US date format and not European.
.

Vixen, your statements above contains at least three false statements. Here are the true details, numbered:

1. TRG Media is an Italian company that broadcasts TV and radio programs on Channel (Canale)13 in Italy; its also called Radio Gubbio*. It has no relationship to the "Thompson Group" - the full name was" Thompson Media Group", and which sold all its properties in 2013. It was a publishing business that specialized in providing compliance, regulatory, and market information through its four operating units and never had any general news programing.**

Two of Thompson Media Group's specialized publications, BioWorld and Medical Device Daily, were sold to Thomson Reuters**, a Canadian company that has several units, one of which - Reuters News Agency - provides news services - similar to organizations such as the Associated Press (AP).***

The Thomson Reuters web site does not list any TV or radio stations/businesses as part of its organization. So it doesn't run or own TRG Media.***

* See:

TRG canale 13

Share your videos with friends, family and the world

www.youtube.com

https://www.trgmedia.it/contatti.aspx

** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Media_Group

*** See:

Thomson Reuters - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Global gateway

Visit Thomson Reuters global websites

www.thomsonreuters.com

2. In translating the date and time to English from Italian, the format of the date and time were changed. This is apparently a change by, for example, Google Translate. The original date and time format is shown in my post:

19/11/2007 15:43
Redazione

The time is not in the usual (civilian) US English format (AM or PM), but in the 24-hour clock format, which is more common in parts of Europe
The date format has also been changed; the common US date format is month/day/year; the format day/month/year is more common in Europe.

It is illogical and false to believe that the translation of an Italian format date getting changed by the translation program to a US format date means that the media article originated with a US or English-speaking source.

3. There is no evidence that the Italian text of the article was not the original text. Your statement that it was is false.

Here is the original Italian text translated to English by Google Translate:

Rudy Hermann Guede: this is the exact name of the so-called "fourth man", wanted for the murder of Meredith Kercher. Twenty years old, of Ivorian nationality, he must* have been at the scene of the crime on the evening of November 1st, when the English student Meredith Kercher was killed in his apartment in Perugia. The Ivorian is known in Perugia because he played for the basketball team 'Nuova Basket Perugia', in the 2004-05 season, which at the time was in the C1 series. The young man, 1.79 meters tall, played as a guard. He is now wanted with an international arrest warrant. In the meantime, technical checks began this morning on the phones of Amanda Knox and Patrick Lumumba Diya to trace the text of the message that the two had exchanged on the night of the crime. They are being carried out at the postal police in Rome with the parties cross-examining each other and in the presence of their consultants. The Seattle student told police that the Congolese musician had warned her via text message that his pub would be closed that evening. The foreigner's version was different, and he claimed that he had warned the young woman not to go to work because there was no need. The text was deleted, however, and now postal experts are trying to trace it back to the cell phone memory.

* Google translation gives "should" but Reverso in Context gives: "He must have been at the crime scene" for the phrase: "dovrebbe essersi trovato nel luogo del delitto".

In conclusion, Vixen's argument is false - the news that the police were searching for Rudy Guede would have been on Italian TV and radio as early as 3:43 pm Italian time on 19 November 2007. So Amanda Knox and others would have heard that news on the TV when they watched a news program. BTW, TRG Media apparently specialized in broadcasting in the Umbria region- and Perugia is in Umbria.**

**The lower right of its website show the following:
TRG Media 2005-2025

Umbria Televisioni s.r.l. - P.I.00496230541 - www.trgmedia.it - Powered by FFZ

 

[Stacyhs]

If you don't know the difference between slashing and stabbing, I can't help you.

What thingummybob said.

That the fatal wound was made by stabbing and then sawing a gash back and forth was not known until the autopsy. To the naked eye, it looked like her throat had been slashed. Frankly, I think you do understand that. What I can't understand is your inability to admit it.

 

[Stacyhs]

Not sure why you are disputing there was a massive PR campaign, when I provided a citation from Curt Knox saying recruiting a PR agency was the smartest thing he ever did.

No one is disputing a PR agency was hired. What I, and I believe others, object to is your mischaracterization that it was "massive". TJMK is a, if not the primary, pusher of the "million dollar PR" rubbish. Not once has any evidence ever been presented of how much Gogerty-Marriott was paid. That number and the "massive" description is the invention of you and other PGP.

We all know advertising and PR are hugely successful, why else do corporations spend a huge amount of money on it. Why do you think Elon Musk invested hundreds of mllions in PR to get King Donald of Orange elected. Because it works.

The Knox family was not a corporation nor billionaires like Musk buying millions of dollars worth of commercials on TV.

If you want to use the hyperbole of 'brainwashing' then you obviously understood the intent behind PR.

We absolutely understand the intent behind using hyperbole which is why we understand your use of hyperbole so often including the word "massive".

But should criminal law be tried by PR, advertising or by public opinion? I would stick my neck out and say the correct place to try a criminal case is in a criminal court of law.

The case was tried in a criminal court of law and the pair was found not guilty. So why do you keep trying them here and elsewhere? Is the internet a criminal court of law?

As for your moronic admonitions to report your word twisting to to the moderators, please stop it. It is not clever.

"Moronic"? Now who's resorting to an ad hominem?

 

[Stacyhs]

Vixen, your statements above contains at least three false statements. Here are the true details, numbered:

1. TRG Media is an Italian company that broadcasts TV and radio programs on Channel (Canale)13 in Italy; its also called Radio Gubbio*. It has no relationship to the "Thompson Group" - the full name was" Thompson Media Group", and which sold all its properties in 2013. It was a publishing business that specialized in providing compliance, regulatory, and market information through its four operating units and never had any general news programing.**

Two of Thompson Media Group's specialized publications, BioWorld and Medical Device Daily, were sold to Thomson Reuters**, a Canadian company that has several units, one of which - Reuters News Agency - provides news services - similar to organizations such as the Associated Press (AP).***

The Thomson Reuters web site does not list any TV or radio stations/businesses as part of its organization. So it doesn't run or own TRG Media.***

* See:

TRG canale 13

Share your videos with friends, family and the world

www.youtube.com

https://www.trgmedia.it/contatti.aspx

** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Media_Group

*** See:

Thomson Reuters - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Global gateway

Visit Thomson Reuters global websites

www.thomsonreuters.com

2. In translating the date and time to English from Italian, the format of the date and time were changed. This is apparently a change by, for example, Google Translate. The original date and time format is shown in my post:

19/11/2007 15:43
Redazione

The time is not in the usual (civilian) US English format (AM or PM), but in the 24-hour clock format, which is more common in parts of Europe
The date format has also been changed; the common US date format is month/day/year; the format day/month/year is more common in Europe.f

It is illogical and false to believe that the translation of an Italian format date getting changed by the translation program to a US format date means that the media article originated with a US or English-speaking source.

3. There is no evidence that the Italian text of the article was not the original text. Your statement that it was is false.

Here is the original Italian text translated to English by Google Translate:


* Google translation gives "should" but Reverso in Context gives: "He must have been at the crime scene" for the phrase: "dovrebbe essersi trovato nel luogo del delitto".

In conclusion, Vixen's argument is false - the news that the police were searching for Rudy Guede would have been on Italian TV and radio as early as 3:43 pm Italian time on 19 November 2007. So Amanda Knox and others would have heard that news on the TV when they watched a news program. BTW, TRG Media apparently specialized in broadcasting in the Umbria region- and Perugia is in Umbria.**

**The lower right of its website show the following:
TRG Media 2005-2025

Umbria Televisioni s.r.l. - P.I.00496230541 - www.trgmedia.it - Powered by FFZ

Haven't you heard? Apparently, I've been changing the time stamps on all these articles! How I'm supposed to be doing that remains a mystery. Maybe Vixen can explain that to us.

 

[Stacyhs]

Vixen said:
TV News is not something mostly lower-class inmates would be watching. The idea is utterly absurd.

That's some weird classism.

The idea is utterly absurd.

 

[TruthCalls]

You might be surprised to know that the pair were acquitted under:

law
acquittal
proscioglimento da un’accusa acquittal of a charge

and not the usual

assoluzione - not guilty.

The former, proscioglimento is something reserved for preliminary courts and is roughly equivalent to the CPS saying there is insufficient evidence to prosecute or a pretrial hearing throwing the whole thing out due to a lack of Reasonable Prospect of Success, or the US version of 'insufficent 'probable cause'.


This is why Marasca-Bruno's MR is so egregious. That is the only way they could get the pair out of prison, even though they were found firmly guilty by the merits trial and the Nencini Appeal Court. (Nencini has now been promoted and is the head honcho of the Florence Courts - the one that threw out AK's latest appeal.)

But of course, AK and RS fans are just glad they are out. As if they were going to share any of their 'compo' with their supporters anyway.

Nota Bene: Colloquial terms such as 'acquitted' and 'exonerated' have a more precise legal meaning, and it is not correct to say they were 'exonerated', as AK likes to claim.

.

.

I'm confused. If the court does not have sufficient evidence to convict, but the defendant is not able to prove their innocence, how could the court rule them "not guilty", and on what basis would they do that? It seems to me if a court has decided there is insufficient evidence to convict, but innocence has not been proven, the court would have no other option than to acquit due to insufficient evidence.

The Marasca-Bruno verdict was hardly egregious. The court did identified violations of Italian law by both the investigation and the lower courts, and declared that if they had followed the law they HAD to acquit. Courts, after all, are not supposed to speculate and assume, something both Massei and Nencini did excessively, something Guede apologists and Knox haters refuse to accept.

 

[Bill Williams]

Vixen wrote:

If you had been paying attention, Myriad, you would know they were acquitted under a rarely used loophole of 'insufficient evidence'. In other words, the facts the merits and appeal courts found remain facts. AK remains convicted of the serious crime of Calunnia, which the courts say she committed to cover up for Guede.

I know people don't like facing unpleasant facts but I suggest you read the final Motivations Report before you decide there is nothing to see here.

Ah, er, there is nothing to see here.

It is simply not true that they were acquitted under a 'rarely used loophole'. And even if they were (there's that pesky 'even if' that formed the basis of Marasca-Bruno's panel in 2015 acquitting them).....

.... it is still an acquittal, which I am forever grateful you've finally, after 10 years, conceded. Thank you!

The facts, they always remain facts. The one fact that was unassailable formed the basis of the 2015 final and definitive acquittal - that even if the prosecution case before Nencini's 2013-'14 court HAD BEEN TRUE, none of it made up for the unassailable fact that no evidence, none at all, had been found in the murderroom pointing to either AK or RS. None.

The ISC ruled in 2015 that the Nencini court had erred in convicting, not under any loophole. Unless you think it is a loophole that one cannot be convicted unless there is actual evidence which supports it.