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The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 30

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Stacyhs said:
Sorry, I meant to say that Meredith's funeral was held in Croydon Minster/Croydon Parish Church and she's buried in Mitcham Rd. Cemetery. My allergies are flaring up so badly right now I can hardly see straight through the puffy eyes and the constant sneezing and sniffling is driving me nuts. The smoke in the air from the fires isn't helping any either. We've got the worst air pollution in the world right now.
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Oh gosh yes - I didn't think about that. Must be very unpleasant. I have a friend on Vancouver Island who isn't enjoying the air quality - but I know it's significantly worse further South.
 
Mojo said:
Sorry, I haven’t been following this thread, but was there ever any answer to this question?
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Oh, ah - no.

For a start, it's something of a given that John Kercher could not have used psychic methods to "know" who killed his daughter.

The poster who wrote those words had a clear insinuation in mind. That insinuation was: "John Kercher knew that Knox and Sollecito killed his daughter". Which of course is arrant nonsense.

The horribly sad thing is that had the Perugia police, prosecutor and lower courts done their jobs properly and ethically (and lawfully) from the start, John Kercher would have long ago achieved some form of closure by knowing that it was Guede - and Guede alone - who killed his daughter.

As it was though, Meredith's entire family were emotionally pulled around all over the place by having to endure the apparent understanding that Knox and Sollecito were correctly convicted, then (no less than eight years after the murder itself...) final confirmation that the prosecution's original thesis wasn't worth the paper it was written on. I suspect that right up to the day he died, John Kercher was still conflicted and confused about things. And that's a very saddening thing to consider.
 
LondonJohn said:
Oh gosh yes - I didn't think about that. Must be very unpleasant. I have a friend on Vancouver Island who isn't enjoying the air quality - but I know it's significantly worse further South.
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Vancouver, BC, is topping out as #2 in Air Quality misery. Portland, OR, is steady at #1 in the miserable category.
 
A few questions on the first podcast:

1. Was the lawyer whose laptop was stolen by Guede representing a defense case
against Mignini as claimed? I have never heard this before.

2. Did it happen more than once as claimed?

3. Did the boys downstairs tell Guede that the girls upstairs would not be home over
the holiday? That doesn’t sound plausible to me because Kercher had nowhere to
go that weekend or had she originally planned on going to England that weekend?
If so, why would the boys mention the girls’ plans to Guede?


I found the story interesting about how Moore was worried that Mignini would try to keep Knox in the country by charging her with overstaying her visa after the 2011 acquittal and his call to the Rome airport manager and how he handled that. It was good to hear how there was a line of Romans wishing Amanda well.

I like the story about about how Amanda's high school created an award for compassion just for her when she graduated. Rather puts the lie to the kind person the PGP paint her as.
 
Stacyhs said:
I found the story interesting about how Moore was worried that Mignini would try to keep Knox in the country by charging her with overstaying her visa after the 2011 acquittal and his call to the Rome airport manager and how he handled that. It was good to hear how there was a line of Romans wishing Amanda well.
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In September 2012, Jason Puracal, also of Seattle, was released from a Nicaraguan prison after being sentenced to 22 years for drug smuggling, money laundering, etc. He was released by an appeals court in Nicaragua, but had been in custody for almost two years. The thing of note in this is that there was literally no evidence supporting a charge, much less a conviction.

The webpage IIP had a thread back then covering this, and I remember someone close to the case cautioning that Puracal was not "free and clear" until "wheels up", meaning when the airplane carrying him out of the country had cleared Nicaraguan airspace.

Every once in a while, a case somewhere becomes some sort of internal litmus test. Supporters of Puracal's worried that the original prosecutors would have been so ticked-off by their Appeals Court's action, that they'd be waiting for Puracal at the prison door wanting to charge him with something, anything, merely to keep him in the country.

Same with Canadian Neil Bantleman, convicted in Indonesia under trumped up charges. Bantleman was eventually released and deported back to Canada (where he's not spoken at all about his years of false imprisonment). The reason for his silence is probably because Indonesian nationals remain in prison there for a crime which in all likelihood never happened.

Of note in Bantleman's odyssey, is that 10 of the school's cleaners had also been arrested. Only 9 had been convicted, because one had succumbed to injuries sustained during interrogation.

Sometimes a police service, court system needs to charge/convict regardless.
 
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Stacyhs said:
A few questions on the first podcast:

1. Was the lawyer whose laptop was stolen by Guede representing a defense case against Mignini as claimed? I have never heard this before.

2. Did it happen more than once as claimed?

3. Did the boys downstairs tell Guede that the girls upstairs would not be home over
the holiday? That doesn’t sound plausible to me because Kercher had nowhere to
go that weekend or had she originally planned on going to England that weekend?
If so, why would the boys mention the girls’ plans to Guede?


I found the story interesting about how Moore was worried that Mignini would try to keep Knox in the country by charging her with overstaying her visa after the 2011 acquittal and his call to the Rome airport manager and how he handled that. It was good to hear how there was a line of Romans wishing Amanda well.

I like the story about about how Amanda's high school created an award for compassion just for her when she graduated. Rather puts the lie to the kind person the PGP paint her as.
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I think it comes from Nina Burleigh's book "The Fatal Gift of Beauty" (page 136-7) that refers to Brocchi and Palazzoli representing the Michele Fabiani and the Spoleto five that were protesting against the construction of a tower block on the outskirts of Perugia. It all got ugly and Fabiani was arrested and imprisoned, courtesy of Manuela Comodi. The theory being that Rudy's break-in at the the law office was an attempt to disrupt the Spoleto case. It is speculative but it supports the theory that Rudy was reporting to the cops at that stage.

Hoots
 
TomG said:
I think it comes from Nina Burleigh's book "The Fatal Gift of Beauty" (page 136-7) that refers to Brocchi and Palazzoli representing the Michele Fabiani and the Spoleto five that were protesting against the construction of a tower block on the outskirts of Perugia. It all got ugly and Fabiani was arrested and imprisoned, courtesy of Manuela Comodi. The theory being that Rudy's break-in at the the law office was an attempt to disrupt the Spoleto case. It is speculative but it supports the theory that Rudy was reporting to the cops at that stage.

Hoots
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I see. Thanks. The pieces of the puzzle do fit nicely.
 
Hello everyone I am new here.

Regarding Quennell's new post on his Tinfoil Site. After he posted the alert on Twitter I said to him that apology of Gumbel and Sollecito never happened.

He just replied that it happened and now says on his HP that Mignini will post the document in his new book. :D

But the best part is this Quote of his in the comment section:

"Someone on Twitter, possibly Knox, claimed that (2) above about Sollecito losing in the Florence court (actually he was forced to settle, so blatant was the book) never happened."

The poor man sees Knox behind every Corner.

Greetings

Torsten
 
TheMediaexpert said:
Hello everyone I am new here.

Regarding Quennell's new post on his Tinfoil Site. After he posted the alert on Twitter I said to him that apology of Gumbel and Sollecito never happened.

He just replied that it happened and now says on his HP that Mignini will post the document in his new book. :D
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I have an old harddrive (harvested from an old computer) which contains about a dozen of Quennell's promises that "something" was about to happen which would reverse the acquittals, or at the very least, put the acquittals, "into a context where you'd understand that (Person X, or Agency X) had interfered." Perhaps the one prediction that he'd made that did, actually, come true was the 2013 Cassazione reversal of Hellmann's 2011 acquittals.

My favourite quote was from a now dormant devotee of Quennell's who begged him to stop making these lame predictions. Why? Because it made him look so lame. And that was from a supporter of his.

TheMediaexpert said:
But the best part is this Quote of his in the comment section:

"Someone on Twitter, possibly Knox, claimed that (2) above about Sollecito losing in the Florence court (actually he was forced to settle, so blatant was the book) never happened."

The poor man sees Knox behind every Corner.

Greetings

Torsten
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Quennell seems to not know - Knox has moved on from this, and is building a niche media career from wrongful conviction work. That word "possibly" is Quennell's favourite fall-back word. There used to be a time when he'd point back to it, when one of his never ending predictions of something "possibly" happening did not work out.

The problem with his announcement that Gumbel and Sollecito would apologize to Migini, was that Quennell had not put such a qualifier on to it.

Here's a link to a recent interview with Raffaele Sollectio about the impact that his own wrongful conviction played, and still plays, in his life.

https://www.ilriformista.it/raffael...VBAJeWSfvOw12aMT-0fBYsK1oFHxX4Pmkb3PC-UjOnUV0

It seems Italians are more likely that North Americans to trust prosecutors and the courts, and that someone must have got off because of some imagined dietrological explanation.

Maybe the title of this thread in ISF needs to be changed to, "imaginings of Peter Quennell."
 
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Welcome, Torsten.

Slick Pete is trying so hard to make himself relevant. He misses having, what was, a relative position of importance during the hay days of the Kercher trials. It's rather sad...or would be if he wasn't such nasty POS.

Bill, I read the article you linked. It's so sad. I do believe Raff will always be a victim of this injustice in Italy because most Italians will always think him guilty. This statement from the article is true:

The state is simply following in the footsteps of popular belief: in our culture there is unfortunately always the idea that if you are accused something you definitely did, even if you are then acquitted. If they can't find the evidence, it's just because you were good at hiding it. This bias is certainly fueled by the media that advertises the prosecution's evidence in a biased manner in favor of those who are conducting the investigation.
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As for Quennell's assertion about the 'apology', I think it's a bunch of BS.

On another note, I'm a bit worried about our Vixen. She hasn't posted on ISF in any thread since Sept. 7. Not like her.
 
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Bill Williams said:
I have an old harddrive (harvested from an old computer) which contains about a dozen of Quennell's promises that "something" was about to happen which would reverse the acquittals, or at the very least, put the acquittals, "into a context where you'd understand that (Person X, or Agency X) had interfered." Perhaps the one prediction that he'd made that did, actually, come true was the 2013 Cassazione reversal of Hellmann's 2011 acquittals.

My favourite quote was from a now dormant devotee of Quennell's who begged him to stop making these lame predictions. Why? Because it made him look so lame. And that was from a supporter of his.


Quennell seems to not know - Knox has moved on from this, and is building a niche media career from wrongful conviction work. That word "possibly" is Quennell's favourite fall-back word. There used to be a time when he'd point back to it, when one of his never ending predictions of something "possibly" happening did not work out.

The problem with his announcement that Gumbel and Sollecito would apologize to Migini, was that Quennell had not put such a qualifier on to it.

Here's a link to a recent interview with Raffaele Sollectio about the impact that his own wrongful conviction played, and still plays, in his life.

https://www.ilriformista.it/raffael...VBAJeWSfvOw12aMT-0fBYsK1oFHxX4Pmkb3PC-UjOnUV0

It seems Italians are more likely that North Americans to trust prosecutors and the courts, and that someone must have got off because of some imagined dietrological explanation.

Maybe the title of this thread in ISF needs to be changed to, "imaginings of Peter Quennell."
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If I were Raffaele I'd resign my Italian citizenship and live in the Galapagos islands. To re-date 520 files on his laptop and then to render the hard-drive inoperable could only have been an attempt to destroy his alibi. This was an act of gross criminality that the investigators were able to tip-toe away from. To then deny him compensation is just a slap in the face from a corrupt judiciary.

Hoots
 
TomG said:
This was an act of gross criminality that the investigators were able to tip-toe away from. To then deny him compensation is just a slap in the face from a corrupt judiciary.

Hoots
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Ontario (Canada) police have just announced that they've cracked the case of Christine Jessop's 1984 murder, one in which her then neighbour, Guy Paul Morin, had been wrongfully convicted.

Morin was exonerated in 1995 by exculpatory DNA evidence. In 2020 Toronto police used genealogical DNA profiling to identify the real killer, who himself had committed suicide in 2015.

The Kaufmann Commission looked into the minutiae of how Morin had been firstly suspected and eventually convicted. There had actually been no reason to suspect him, and less to convict him. Kaufmann criticizes mercilessly the forensics lab, which had signed off on what ended up being fraudulent fibre and hair forensics presented in court.

The parallels with the Sollecito/Knox case are chilling. Kaufmann has a section on investigative confirmation bias and tunnel vision, including noting that investigators **still** believe Morin is guilty, despite the DNA exoneration and collapse of the fibre and hair evidence.

At least Morin eventually got financial compensation.
 
Bill Williams said:
I have an old harddrive (harvested from an old computer) which contains about a dozen of Quennell's promises that "something" was about to happen which would reverse the acquittals, or at the very least, put the acquittals, "into a context where you'd understand that (Person X, or Agency X) had interfered." Perhaps the one prediction that he'd made that did, actually, come true was the 2013 Cassazione reversal of Hellmann's 2011 acquittals.

My favourite quote was from a now dormant devotee of Quennell's who begged him to stop making these lame predictions. Why? Because it made him look so lame. And that was from a supporter of his.


Quennell seems to not know - Knox has moved on from this, and is building a niche media career from wrongful conviction work. That word "possibly" is Quennell's favourite fall-back word. There used to be a time when he'd point back to it, when one of his never ending predictions of something "possibly" happening did not work out.

The problem with his announcement that Gumbel and Sollecito would apologize to Migini, was that Quennell had not put such a qualifier on to it.

Here's a link to a recent interview with Raffaele Sollectio about the impact that his own wrongful conviction played, and still plays, in his life. https://www.ilriformista.it/raffael...VBAJeWSfvOw12aMT-0fBYsK1oFHxX4Pmkb3PC-UjOnUV0
It seems Italians are more likely that North Americans to trust prosecutors and the courts, and that someone must have got off because of some imagined dietrological explanation.

Maybe the title of this thread in ISF needs to be changed to, "imaginings of Peter Quennell."
Click to expand...

TomG said:
If I were Raffaele I'd resign my Italian citizenship and live in the Galapagos islands. To re-date 520 files on his laptop and then to render the hard-drive inoperable could only have been an attempt to destroy his alibi. This was an act of gross criminality that the investigators were able to tip-toe away from. To then deny him compensation is just a slap in the face from a corrupt judiciary.

Hoots
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For those who haven't yet read the article (or a translation), it includes, as I understand the Google translation to state, the new information that Sollecito has pursued a new civil lawsuit against the judiciary [including police and prosecutors?] (the Italian term used in the article is "togati", translating literally to "judges") for alleged "willful misconduct or gross negligence". The lawsuit was rejected recently by a first-instance court, in Genoa, and Sollecito and his lawyers are now appealing that decision.

The article also states that he continues to face social and professional (job-related) prejudice, as has his sister Vanessa, who had been a member of the Carabinieri but was stigmatized and dismissed after he was unfairly arrested and charged.
 
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Bill Williams said:
The parallels with the Sollecito/Knox case are chilling. Kaufmann has a section on investigative confirmation bias and tunnel vision, including noting that investigators **still** believe Morin is guilty, despite the DNA exoneration and collapse of the fibre and hair evidence.
At least Morin eventually got financial compensation.
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Some people are incapable of admitting they are wrong no matter the evidence proving they are, in fact, wrong. Is it an insecurity problem? For example, Trump is an extreme narcissist and never admits he's wrong. He still claims the Central Park 5 are guilty despite DNA exoneration and the confession of the real rapist.

When police/investigators cannot admit they made a mistake due to tunnel vision and/or investigative confirmation bias in a case then it prevents them from repeating it. They do not learn.
 
Stacyhs said:
Some people are incapable of admitting they are wrong no matter the evidence proving they are, in fact, wrong. Is it an insecurity problem? For example, Trump is an extreme narcissist and never admits he's wrong. He still claims the Central Park 5 are guilty despite DNA exoneration and the confession of the real rapist.

When police/investigators cannot admit they made a mistake due to tunnel vision and/or investigative confirmation bias in a case then it prevents them from repeating it. They do not learn.
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In another parallel with the Knox/Sollecito wrongful prosecutions, the E.D. of the Canadian Innocence Project made comments about the Morin case on Canadian radio this morning. This is in the wake of yesterday's announcement that another, now deceased, perp had been proven to match the DNA in the murdered girl's body.

He was asked, "Why was Morin even suspected to begin with?"

He answered (paraphrase): "You have to remember that they didn't seriously look into Morin as a serious suspect until month's later. At that point the police had run out of suspects. Then one cop remembered that on the first day of Jessop's disappearance, he'd been at the next-door neighbour's house, the Morins, asking them if they'd seen the little girl."

"It was months' later, with all leads dried up, that they started on Guy Paul Morin, who a cop had said had once acted inappropriately that first day, when the whole family was being interviewed. Morin, indeed, is an odd fellow, and speaks in a manner that tends to be atypical to begin with. Once law enforcement decided that he (Morin) might be the guy, they started to build a case around his idiosyncrasies. Rather than letting the evidence pave the way to prove him as a suspect, they let the fact of him being a suspect pave the way to interpret the evidence."

The innocence project guy was asked if Canadian law enforcement had learned anything from the rock-solid, and eventual exoneration of Morin. He said that "guard rails have been put into place that had not been there before, but it is very easy just to blow through them. The issue is tunnel vision and confirmation bias."

He said that there are about 65 to 70 cases in Canada still to be looked at by the Innocence Project, but it is time-consuming and expensive to do it - particularly when lined up against the unlimited resources available to the state.

But when he was speaking, it was not hard to think of the discussion we've had in this thread (!) about Sollecito/Knox, or even in other threads like for Nyki Kish.

The innocence Project guy reiterated something that has been posted here.... the victims of this are first and foremost the family of the murdered person. While not "secondarily" at all, another full fledged victim of this was Guy Paul Morin, and especially his family who have also been dragged through a very specific kind of hell, even after Morin's exoneration.
 
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