The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 30

[abaddon]

Deaths are public information. Cemeteries aren't private. Find a Grave gives out that kind of information all the time. It's what they do. Meredith is listed as buried there by Find a Grave, Arline is not. But that could be because, if buried in June, she just hasn't been listed yet. I just find it extremely odd that not a single mention of her passing would be mentioned by the media anywhere in England or here. Or by anyone on Twitter.

Sigh.

Searching the BMD gets me nothing. I am not buying it.

Searching by surname only gets me Meredith and John, but no Arline or anything remotely close.

Search by geo similarly produces nothing.

So unless Arline died and they took her out to sea, tied a half brick to her dead ankle and chucked her overboard just to avoid death registration, there is a problem with this tall tale.

 

[Stacyhs]

Sigh.

Searching the BMD gets me nothing. I am not buying it.

Searching by surname only gets me Meredith and John, but no Arline or anything remotely close.

Search by geo similarly produces nothing.

So unless Arline died and they took her out to sea, tied a half brick to her dead ankle and chucked her overboard just to avoid death registration, there is a problem with this tall tale.

Raper said she was buried next to Meredith. My friend confirmed through the cemetery that Arline is not buried at Croydon. Arline Kercher is not dead. I have no idea why Raper said she was. I don't know if he just made it up or if he heard it somewhere else and just passed it on or what but he is wrong.

 

[whoanellie]

Raper said she was buried next to Meredith. My friend confirmed through the cemetery that Arline is not buried at Croydon. Arline Kercher is not dead. I have no idea why Raper said she was. I don't know if he just made it up or if he heard it somewhere else and just passed it on or what but he is wrong.

I went back and looked again and in a comment on truejustice.org 'James Raper' specifically says Arline died on the 11th of June.

 

[Stacyhs]

It must have been. Just another example of their accuracy in reporting.

ETA: The comment is still there but I've looked online and there is nothing. If she supposedly died on June 11th, there certainly would have been something mentioned in the Brit tabloids.

I went back and looked again and in a comment on truejustice.org 'James Raper' specifically says Arline died on the 11th of June.

Yes, which I mentioned earlier.

 

[Numbers]

Sigh.

Searching the BMD gets me nothing. I am not buying it.

Searching by surname only gets me Meredith and John, but no Arline or anything remotely close.

Search by geo similarly produces nothing.

So unless Arline died and they took her out to sea, tied a half brick to her dead ankle and chucked her overboard just to avoid death registration, there is a problem with this tall tale.

Raper said she was buried next to Meredith. My friend confirmed through the cemetery that Arline is not buried at Croydon. Arline Kercher is not dead. I have no idea why Raper said she was. I don't know if he just made it up or if he heard it somewhere else and just passed it on or what but he is wrong.

I went back and looked again and in a comment on truejustice.org 'James Raper' specifically says Arline died on the 11th of June.

I don't know if this is the most thorough and complete way to search for a death record in England, but I went to a UK government site* and searched for probates for presons with the surname "Kercher" with date of death in 2020.

I found John L. Kercher (Meredith's father, apparently) who had died on 1 February 2020, and two other Kerchers, neither being named Arline; one male (by first name) had died on 8 April, and the other female (by first and middle names) on 9 April.

The database includes persons who died with or without a will; however, it may only include those decedents who had some possessions or property to distribute in a probate process. Thus, it is possible that infants and children or some adults may not be included, but this is probably not relevant to the present search.

There are limitations to the search:

1. It only identifies those who died with probate in England or Wales and

2. It identifies those known in the probate process by a specific surname.

* https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

ETA: This probate database did not include a listing for Meredith Kercher for the years 2007, 2008, or 2009.

 

[Stacyhs]

You're all overthinking this. She isn't dead.

 

[Numbers]

You're all overthinking this. She isn't dead.

While one cannot be 100% confident that the apparent original poster of the misinformation that Arline Kercher had died was repeating someone else's falsehood, I think that the misinformation is another PGP hoax.

Some years ago, a fuzzy (low-resolution) photo taken by a security camera in the parking structure across from the cottage was released by some Italian media. The photo included the image of a woman, whose face was not recognizable, but whose hair color may have been similar to Knox's. The media teased that this was (perhaps) an incriminating picture of Knox.

Later, Knox's defense released some photos from the parking structure's cameras showing very clear and identifiable faces of persons looking back toward the parking structure entrance/exit.

Those later photos of excellent resolution revealed that the earlier low-resolution photo allegedly (perhaps) of Knox was a hoax. The resolution of some other woman who happened to be passing through the parking structure was doctored to make it ambiguous. And to gain market share.

 

[whoanellie]

Yes, which I mentioned earlier.

I'm slow.

 

[Numbers]

While one cannot be 100% confident that the apparent original poster of the misinformation that Arline Kercher had died was repeating someone else's falsehood, I think that the misinformation is another PGP hoax.

Some years ago, a fuzzy (low-resolution) photo taken by a security camera in the parking structure across from the cottage was released by some Italian media. The photo included the image of a woman, whose face was not recognizable, but whose hair color may have been similar to Knox's. The media teased that this was (perhaps) an incriminating picture of Knox.

Later, Knox's defense released some photos from the parking structure's cameras showing very clear and identifiable faces of persons looking back toward the parking structure entrance/exit.

Those later photos of excellent resolution revealed that the earlier low-resolution photo allegedly (perhaps) of Knox was a hoax. The resolution of {the photograph image of} some other woman who happened to be passing through the parking structure was doctored to make it ambiguous. And to gain market share.

I added some wording to the above post to make it more clear.

 

[Numbers]

While one cannot be 100% confident that the apparent original poster of the misinformation that Arline Kercher had died was repeating someone else's falsehood, I think that the misinformation is another PGP hoax.

Some years ago, a fuzzy (low-resolution) photo taken by a security camera in the parking structure across from the cottage was released by some Italian media. The photo included the image of a woman, whose face was not recognizable, but whose hair color may have been similar to Knox's. The media teased that this was (perhaps) an incriminating picture of Knox.

Later, Knox's defense released some photos from the parking structure's cameras showing very clear and identifiable faces of persons looking back toward the parking structure entrance/exit.

Those later photos of excellent resolution revealed that the earlier low-resolution photo allegedly (perhaps) of Knox was a hoax. The resolution of some other woman who happened to be passing through the parking structure was doctored to make it ambiguous. And to gain market share.

I added some wording to the above post to make it more clear.

Those who are familiar with the history of the Knox - Sollecito case can no doubt list a number of hoaxes or intentional misrepresentations by the media, PGP, or by the authorities in the case.

To appreciate the effort to which some will go to carry out a hoax, here's an interesting recent elaborate hoax which tricked the Washington Post, as reported by the media outlet itself:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...7ccc7e-f6c1-11ea-be57-d00bb9bc632d_story.html

 

[Stacyhs]

Paywall. But I think you're talking about the Burkman Wohl fake FBI raid?

 

[Numbers]

Those who are familiar with the history of the Knox - Sollecito case can no doubt list a number of hoaxes or intentional misrepresentations by the media, PGP, or by the authorities in the case.

To appreciate the effort to which some will go to carry out a hoax, here's an interesting recent elaborate hoax which tricked the Washington Post, as reported by the media outlet itself:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...7ccc7e-f6c1-11ea-be57-d00bb9bc632d_story.html

Paywall. But I think you're talking about the Burkman Wohl fake FBI raid?

Yes. From the Washington Post article cited:

A fake FBI raid orchestrated by right-wing activists dupes The Washington Post

A fake FBI raid staged Monday by a notorious right-wing activist and conspiracist turned into an embarrassment for The Washington Post, which briefly reported the faux event as if it were the real deal.

The “raid” on a house in Arlington, Va., actually involved actors recruited by Jacob Wohl, who has a history of making false accusations and has orchestrated dubious events in an effort to smear perceived opponents of President Trump.

This time, Wohl recruited actors to pose as FBI agents, telling them they would be participating in a scene for a “TV pilot,” one of the actors involved told the Daily Beast. The actors donned FBI-style windbreakers and pretended they were raiding a house during early-morning hours.
....

The Post and its reporter made the mistake of not checking with the FBI before publishing; they relied on an email tip reported by a "neighbor" (apparently one of the hoaxers) and a confirmation from Burkman.

The Post, about two hours after publication, updated the article to note that it was a fabrication, and later removed the article.

I wonder whether this latest TJMK story was an apparently false report of Meredith's mother's death meant to embarrass or to gain sympathy from TJMK readers who weren't in on what appears to be a hoax.

Another source:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jacob...iness-partner-actor-hired-for-production-says

A supposed FBI raid on the home of an infamous Republican dirty trickster appears to have been a ruse—one that began falling apart even as its perpetrators managed to dupe a major national newspaper.

On Monday, a Virginia man who responded to a Craigslist ad seeking actors to play FBI agents for a television pilot came forward to say that he’d been roped into the latest hoax orchestrated by bumbling right-wing smear merchants Jack Burkman and Jacob Wohl.

Tommy Abraham told The Daily Beast in an interview on Monday that the Craigslist ad offered $400 cash payments to white male actors who agreed to don FBI badges and windbreakers and film a series of scenes at Burkman’s home in Arlington, Virginia. In the pre-dawn hours of Monday morning, Abraham said that he and a handful of others who responded to the ad converged on Burkman’s home and were filmed acting out an FBI raid there. Abraham supplied documentary evidence to back up his assertions, including emails from an address bearing the name of a company Wohl once ran.
....

An example of how one should be reasonably skeptical of claims and look for credible evidence.

 

[Stacyhs]

If it was, it was incredibly stupid as it didn't take long to debunk.

 

[Numbers]

For those interested in the more general topic of wrongful convictions - of which the Knox - Sollecito case is one example from Italy - there is a report on government misconduct for US cases of exonerations in 2019 recently issued by the National Registry of Exonerations*.

Here are excerpts from the summary of that report; points that appear common to the Knox - Sollecito case are highlighted:

Official misconduct contributed to the false convictions of 54% of defendants who were later exonerated. In general, the rate of misconduct is higher in more severe crimes.
Concealing exculpatory evidence—the most common type of misconduct—occurred in 44% of exonerations.
Black exonerees were slightly more likely than whites to have been victims of misconduct (57% to 52%), but this gap is much larger among exonerations for murder (78% to 64%)—especially those with death sentences (87% to 68%)—and for drug crimes (47% to 22%).

Police officers committed misconduct in 35% of cases. They were responsible for most of the witness tampering, misconduct in interrogation, and fabricating evidence—and a great deal of concealing exculpatory evidence and perjury at trial.
Prosecutors committed misconduct in 30% of the cases. Prosecutors were responsible for most of the concealing of exculpatory evidence and misconduct at trial, and a substantial amount of witness tampering.
...[W]e consider what led officials to commit misconduct. We conclude that the main causes are pervasive practices that permit or reward bad behavior, lack of resources to conduct high quality investigations and prosecutions,and ineffective leadership by those in command.




* https://www.law.umich.edu/special/e...nt_Misconduct_and_Convicting_the_Innocent.pdf

 

[Bill Williams]

While one cannot be 100% confident that the apparent original poster of the misinformation that Arline Kercher had died was repeating someone else's falsehood, I think that the misinformation is another PGP hoax.

As the one who passed this info to this thread, I apologize. About the only redeeming feature of my action was that I supplied the source of the info. Given the source, I should have just left the whole thing alone. But to repeat: it's my bad, for passing it along.

 

[Numbers]

As the one who passed this info to this thread, I apologize. About the only redeeming feature of my action was that I supplied the source of the info. Given the source, I should have just left the whole thing alone. But to repeat: it's my bad, for passing it along.

I think its fair to say none of us knew whether or not the TJMK report was true or not without investigating.

Bill, I think you did the right thing to post on it here and giving the source, so that as a group we were able to do some investigation of the credibility of the information. Just because there are a multitude of hoaxes or misrepresentations on TJMK doesn't mean that once in a while there may true information in a post there.

 

[Stacyhs]

I agree with Numbers. In fact, I'm glad you posted it here, Bill. It was a reminder of just how unreliable TJMK is as a source of information due to their strong guilt bias. I also have to admit to getting a laugh at Quennell's expense.

 

[LondonJohn]

I agree with Numbers. In fact, I'm glad you posted it here, Bill. It was a reminder of just how unreliable TJMK is as a source of information due to their strong guilt bias. I also have to admit to getting a laugh at Quennell's expense.

I still have to say that IMO the "is Arline Kercher dead" issue is not definitively settled.

Firstly, I find it hard to imagine that anyone - TJMK nutters included - would report such specific aspects as the date of her death and the fact that she's buried next to Meredith.

Secondly, and with specific regard to those TJMK nutters, it's not as if this matter has any relevance at all to their central thesis that Knox and Sollecito were involved in Kercher's death (whereas I could much more see someone there inventing (for example) something related to evidence in the case). So I just don't see any upside for anyone there to lie about Arline's death. And even now (and thankfully), nobody over there appears to be claiming that Arline's death might in any way be linked to Knox and Sollecito having "got away with it".

And thirdly, I don't think that the TJMK claim about Arline Kercher's death has yet been reliably falsified. I simply don't think, for example, that somebody working at Croydon Cemetery can necessarily be relied upon to state definitively whether or not Arline is buried alongside Meredith. And I also don't think that the absence of Arline's name on probate records is - at this point in time - any kind of proof that she hasn't died: those records can often lag considerably.


For me, the only way of falsifying (or proving) this claim reliably and accurately at this time would be to physically visit Croydon Cemetery and go to Meredith's grave side: either Arline will not be buried there (which will obviously falsify that part of the claim at least, but even this will not reliably falsify the claim that she died), or Arline will have been buried there.

Personally, I have very little interest in this topic - other than of course feeling sorrow at Arline's death (if the claim is true) - so there's zero chance that I'll be going across London to visit the cemetery. On the other hand, I would have thought it far from unlikely that someone affiliated to TJMK (perhaps one of their huge cadre of European lawyers and other experts.....) will go to visit the cemetery. I guess we may find out for sure that way.

 

[Numbers]

I still have to say that IMO the "is Arline Kercher dead" issue is not definitively settled.

Firstly, I find it hard to imagine that anyone - TJMK nutters included - would report such specific aspects as the date of her death and the fact that she's buried next to Meredith.

Secondly, and with specific regard to those TJMK nutters, it's not as if this matter has any relevance at all to their central thesis that Knox and Sollecito were involved in Kercher's death (whereas I could much more see someone there inventing (for example) something related to evidence in the case). So I just don't see any upside for anyone there to lie about Arline's death. And even now (and thankfully), nobody over there appears to be claiming that Arline's death might in any way be linked to Knox and Sollecito having "got away with it".

And thirdly, I don't think that the TJMK claim about Arline Kercher's death has yet been reliably falsified. I simply don't think, for example, that somebody working at Croydon Cemetery can necessarily be relied upon to state definitively whether or not Arline is buried alongside Meredith. And I also don't think that the absence of Arline's name on probate records is - at this point in time - any kind of proof that she hasn't died: those records can often lag considerably.


For me, the only way of falsifying (or proving) this claim reliably and accurately at this time would be to physically visit Croydon Cemetery and go to Meredith's grave side: either Arline will not be buried there (which will obviously falsify that part of the claim at least, but even this will not reliably falsify the claim that she died), or Arline will have been buried there.

Personally, I have very little interest in this topic - other than of course feeling sorrow at Arline's death (if the claim is true) - so there's zero chance that I'll be going across London to visit the cemetery. On the other hand, I would have thought it far from unlikely that someone affiliated to TJMK (perhaps one of their huge cadre of European lawyers and other experts.....) will go to visit the cemetery. I guess we may find out for sure that way.

It's true as you state that it is not absolutely determined that Arline Kercher is not deceased.

The question, in part, is how reliable is the Croydon cemetery informant.

Except for the TJMK posts, we have no confirmation of her death.

 

[Stacyhs]

The fact that James Raper specifically claimed she is buried next to Meredith and the cemetery personnel said clearly she is not buried at Croyden disproves Raper's claim. The fact that there is ZERO corroborating evidence of Arline's death is pretty strong evidence in itself that she is not dead. Come on, LJ, do you really think the tabloids would not have reported if she had died? This case was huge news in the UK and some reporter would have made a few bucks dredging it up again. No way would this have flown under the radar.