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The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017

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Actually, it's worse than that. We always figured that if DOP was less than 4, we were doing pretty well.

(if DOP=4 and the spacecraft have 1 meter uncertainty, then the resulting uncertainty in the user position would be 4 meters)

What about time dilation? One of the few times Bjarne produced numbers he claimed the time dilation would be off by about 50% from relativity's predictions. How badly would that throw off GPS estimates on the ground if it actually happened?
 
What about time dilation? One of the few times Bjarne produced numbers he claimed the time dilation would be off by about 50% from relativity's predictions. How badly would that throw off GPS estimates on the ground if it actually happened?

That's actually a complicated problem.

If all the spacecraft were synched up and they used a best-fit to the GPS ephemeris message, then the error would be only a few cm (if I trust the back of my envelope).

If they weren't synched, but they used that best-fit ephemeris message, then the error could be up to a km, I think.

If they simply ignored it and didn't use a best-fit, then the error would probably average ~10 km, assuming a PDOP ~4.

But, as I said, it's a complicated problem and my back-of-the-envelope may have some dangerous assumptions. The right way to do it is to actually simulate the whole constellation, simulate a bunch of users on the ground at various locations, and see what their calculated vs. actual positions are.
 
Bjarne: Repeating your ignorance of the ISS and Galileo 5 & 6 experiments is not wise

...Who knows, - maybe unknown causes of anomalies is one of the reasons that ISS is chosen to be a test satellite for time dilation (and now also Galileo 5 & 6) ?
13 September 2016 Bjarne: Repeating your ignorance of the ISS and Galileo 5 & 6 experiments is not wise :eye-poppi!
Galileo 5 & 6 were chosen to test GR after their launches because they were accidentally launched into the wrong, elongated orbits which remained elongated after they were altered to allow the satellites to be used for navigation.
ISS was chosen for ACES launching in 2017, results in 2020 because two high precision atomic clocks can be sent to it and monitored by astronauts which is cheaper and safer than a new satellite.
 
The ability to detect an anomaly is primarily based on you know what has gone wrong.
Bjarne: try reading your sources :jaw-dropp!
The anomaly of a satellite not talking to the ground any more is obvious to the operators listening to it. The operators seeing that the power output from a solar panel has dropped is an anomaly. etc. etc.

A question that shows ignorance about the existence of telescopes and eyes is fairly stupid. Anyone can look up at the sky and watch satellites in polar orbits :eye-poppi! There are radar systems that measure the orbits of satellites. The satellites themselves can verify their orbit using stars and GPS satellites.
 
Bjarne: The delusional belief that relativity is not tested every day - GPS works!

4. Believe that relativity is not tested every day and by every satellite launch, - a.) the staff have more important things to do. b.) GPS is not a scientific test system, also not even if it easy could have been so.
More simply: "4: A belief that is paranoid, ignorant and delusional" :p!
13 September 2016 Bjarne: The delusional belief that relativity is not tested every day - GPS works!
a) Still denying that billions of GPS receivers work (about a billion iPhones alone) because of adjustments for SR and GR. The most important thing "staff" have to do is make sure that GPS work and are as accurate as possible.
b) It does not matter that GPS is not a scientific test system - it only works if relativity is correct :jaw-dropp!
 
That's actually a complicated problem.

If all the spacecraft were synched up and they used a best-fit to the GPS ephemeris message, then the error would be only a few cm (if I trust the back of my envelope).

If they weren't synched, but they used that best-fit ephemeris message, then the error could be up to a km, I think.

If they simply ignored it and didn't use a best-fit, then the error would probably average ~10 km, assuming a PDOP ~4.

But, as I said, it's a complicated problem and my back-of-the-envelope may have some dangerous assumptions. The right way to do it is to actually simulate the whole constellation, simulate a bunch of users on the ground at various locations, and see what their calculated vs. actual positions are.


This is one of the reasons I think Bjarne should check out muon detection from cosmic rays. If his notion is correct then mouns wouldn't be time dilated coming from one direction in fact they would decay faster (with his reversal of the dilation) from that direction than at rest.
 
The only Dark Flow you're ever going to show anyone is the post digestion alphabet soup you strain to produce your scientific "theories."

Real world technology proves your theory is wrong, and you're too cowardly to confront the evidence. You've proven you'd rather lie and spin than face reality.

:D:thumbsup::D:thumbsup::D:thumbsup::D:thumbsup::D:thumbsup:
 
BWHAHAHA!!!!!

The point has gone so far over your head (or the head of the character you're playing on this forum) that it might as well BE a satellite in orbit.

You're making the single most pathetic "God of the Gaps" argument in history, and I KNOW God of the Gaps arguments, I used to be a Creationist.

You might as well argue that you can't be SURE gasoline really burns because every car is not doing regular tests to see IF the gasoline is ACTUALLY burning. Never mind the fact that the cars wouldn't function if gasoline didn't burn and burn the way engineers and chemists expect it to burn.

Where DID you get this "Dark Flow" nonsense anyway? Did it come to you in a dream? A vision from an angel of light? Did a talking Dog tell you all about it? Pixies? I'm not going to ask if it was aliens, because that's just too stupid an idea to even bring up.

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/cEscfBal.jpg[/qimg]

Go home History Chanel, you're drunk again.
No, no it isn't. It is highly likely he thinks such or very similar!!!!!
 
Well, when you first proposed this nonsense, I handed you a list of some 187 active polar orbit satellites. You ignored it then, you will ignore it today.

I am not inclined to chase your ignorance. You demanded it, you ignored it, then you claimed it never happened.

Do you really think I am going to waste time on your wild claims and rootle back in the depths of this thread to find a previous iteration of your nonsensical ideas? Nope.

Are you sure it is not something you have dream ?
 
Again, have you read anything I've written? The fact that they're continuously monitored does not mean that they're continuously updated, and in fact they are not. On average, the ephemeris message transmitted by a GPS spacecraft was created several hours earlier. If the predicted orbit was wrong, then the GPS ephemeris message would be wrong.

And they're not.
Between each time dilation synchronize the GPS ephemeris is always "wrong", due to many different impact you never can forecast

Furthermore the orbit / position is not calculated but measured, it is faster, more precise and no risk for errors.
 
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Between each time dilation synchronize the GPS ephemeris is always "wrong", due to many different impact you never can forecast

Furthermore the orbit / position is not calculated but measured, it is faster, more precise and no risk for errors.



More fan-fiction about GPS oversight?

Dude, it's getting old. You lost on this point and your endless, pathetic efforts to find a loophole are getting BORING.

AnY9nMV.gif
 
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Are you sure it is not something you have dream ?

So the prediction is correct, you are ignoring those satellites again.

ETA: I have actually seen polar satellites moving overhead when I was stationed at a weather station in the high Arctic. (Prince Patrick Island in the Arctic archipelago) It's pretty easy when it's completely dark all day long. Look up and wait no more than 40 minutes and at least one will go by.

Your post is also way off the irony meter since it very much seems that you dreamed your entire treatise.

How's it going BTW, I haven't seen any reporting on the theory of relativity being overthrown so far. Will you be managing to get some university physics department working on demonstrating the veracity of your claims any time soon?
 
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Why do you think this?

It has become necessary for this to be so, else his religion will be jeopardized. As he needs it to be true, he has decided it MUST be true. It is not unlike Biblical literalism to a creationist, or the conspiracy theories invented by people who believe the skeletons of ancient giants mentioned in the bible are being destroyed / covered up to hide the "Truth."

SMITHSONIAN ADMITS TO DESTRUCTION OF THOUSANDS OF GIANT HUMAN SKELETONS IN EARLY 1900’S

 
Why do you think this?

I already wrote why, read above...

A secondary reason is the largest part of our paradigm is obviously sick and pathetic..

Soon a whole world can look back and easy realize that humiliating intolerant brainwashed obsessions have ruled science the last 100 years.
It is some of the worst caliber disgrace the world ever seen, that we hopefully never will see again.

In the meantime remember, - just by replacing an almost innocent expression, - which mean just by replacing so-called “curvature of space” - with a very similar and completely innocent expression “stretching elastic space”, - hell will break loose.
Just such almost innocent play with expressions is enough, this will automatically start a avalanche, - that almost automatically will solve a long list of unsolved mysteries.
First at all the ISS time dilation measurement will prove that dark Flow is real..
But there are many consequences, - very easy to understand …..

Matter and deformation of space is connected due to the elastic property of space.
Matter absorbs elastic space; here we have the matter/space connection showing why gravity still is nothing but a force..

Automatically so called dark energy also is incredibly simple, - nothing but just release of elastic space.

When first getting that fare it is inevitable to conclude that the cause of cosmological redshift simply is turned upside down.
After a Big Bang space tension is released, which mean everything shrinks, - time, distances and of course also the emission EM spectra.

Furthermore the same little innocent modified expression means that the central area of huge gravitational fields of galaxies is stretching to such extreme extends that visible light is emitted redshifted, and even as radio valves, - whereby central areas of galaxies off course is black. – It has nothing to do with any mysterious GR effect.
This also solves why the new interpretation not have the well-known conflicts with both quantum physics as well as with the black hole postulate,
Finally a stretching space concept easy explains any cause of perihelion precision anomaly solely based on a relativistic decrease of the orbit radius, and therefore stronger acceleration due to gravity as expected by perihelion, for example of Mercuries orbit, - this even shows the cause of flyby anomalies which are caused due to the exact same simple law of nature responsible for precession anomalies..,

The curvature of space concept is definitive an outdated theory.
Einstein misunderstood the nature of space, and a naïve world followed him uncritically deep, deep into the mud hole.
A stretching space concept is in all way a better rational, logical and intuitive solution, shortly a perfect solution how really to understand the consequences of the Lorentz equation, such as time dilation and distances contraction.

In the end of the day only one more brick will automatically fall in place, - matters and elastic space is “woven together” , - because space is elastic, - relativistic resistance is also a consequence. This is the real cause of the pioneer anomalies.
But the theory is reaching much further than this, - a addition aspect of the theory shows how Allais Effect is caused by an significant Dark-Flow-Acceleration, (hereafter DFA) this acceleration is the cause of Dark Flow.
Therefore the theory can also reveal that periods of orbit inclination more or less aligned relative to DFA is responsible for galaxy collapse, and therefore so-called black hole.
And off course how solar systems was created due to collapse of protoplanetary disks based on the same simple law of nature..
And even many events in our and other solar system, such as hot Jupiter’s too close to their mother stars, long time after such planet should no longer be possible to exist so close to a star. Or the strange “impossible” orbits of Sedna etc..

Collapse of any orbit should not happen according to prevailing physics, it does.
DFA is responsible for galaxies ability to keep starts in orbit, despite the strong centrifugal force.
Depending on inclination relative to dark flow, galaxies periodical expend their diameter, or collapses. There are no dark matter, - only hardcore obsessions.
Solar system will also periodically collapse.

This was a big story, - but in reality it is a dangerous avalanche, - so soon the predicted time dilation anomaly is revealed that heavy load will begin to move, - NOTHING can stop it.
So seen from a larger perspective, - the price to pay for a much much better world view, is in fact only to face that GPS in no way is scientific test system. Hell will soon break loose, no doubt about it.
 
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I already wrote why, read above...

A secondary reason is the largest part of our paradigm is obviously sick and pathetic..

Soon a whole world can look back and easy realizes that humiliating intolerant brainwashed obsessions have ruled science the last 100 years.
It is some of the worst caliber disgrace the world ever seen, and that we hopefully never will see again.

In the meantime remember, - just by replacing an almost innocent expression, - which mean just by replacing so-called “curvature of space” - with a very similar and completely innocent expression “stretching elastic space”, - hell will break loose.

Just such almost innocent play with expressions is enough, this will automatically start a avalanche, - that almost automatically will solve long list of unsolved mysteries.

First at all the ISS time dilation measurement will prove that dark Flow is real..

But there are many consequences, - very easy y to understand …..

How matter and deformation of space is connected due to the elastic property of space. (Matter absorbs elastic space; here we have the matter/space connection that easy tells us why gravity still is nothing but a force..

Automatically so called dark energy also is incredibly simple, - nothing but just release of elastic space.

When first getting that fare it is inevitable to conclude that the cause of cosmological redshift simply is turned upside down.
After a Big Bang space tension is released, which mean everything shrinks, - time, distances and of course also the emission EM spectra.

Furthermore the same little innocent modified expression means that the central area of huge gravitational fields of galaxies is stretching to such extreme extends that viable light are emitted redshifted, and even as radio valves, - whereby central areas of galaxies off course is black. – It has nothing to do with any mysterious GR effect.

This also solves why the new interpretation not have the well-known conflicts with both quantum physics as well as with the black hole postulate,

Finally a stretching space concept easy explains any cause of perihelion precision anomaly solely based on a relativistic decrease of the orbit radius, and therefore stronger acceleration due to gravity as expected by perihelion, for example of Mercuries orbit, - this even shows the cause of flyby anomalies which are caused due to the exact same simple law of nature responsible for precession anomalies..,

The curvature of space concept is definitive an outdated theory.

Einstein misunderstood the nature of space, and a naïve world followed him uncritically deep, deep into the mud hole.

A stretching space concept is in all way a better rational, logical and intuitive solution, shortly a perfect solution how really to understand the consequences of the Lorentz equation, such as time dilation and distances contraction.

In the end of the day only one more brick will automatically fall in place, - matters and elastic space is “woven together” because space is elastic relativistic resistance is also a consequence. This real cause of the pioneer anomalies.

But the theory is reaching much further than this, - a addition aspect of the theory shows how Allais Effect is caused by an significant Dark-Flow-Acceleration, (hereafter DFA) this acceleration is the cause of Dark Flow.

Therefore the theory can also reveal that periods of orbit inclination more or less aligned relative to DFA is responsible for galaxy collapse, and therefore so-called black hole.

And off course how solar systems was created due to collapse of protoplanetary disks based on the same simple law of nature..

And even many events in our and other solar system, such as hot Jupiter’s too close to their mother stars, long time after such planet should no longer be possible to exist so close to a star. Or the strange “impossible” orbits of Sedna etc..

Collapse of any orbit should not happen according to prevailing physics, it does.

DFA is responsible for galaxies ability to keep starts in orbit, despite the strong centrifugal force.

Depending on inclination relative to dark flow, galaxies periodical expend their diameter, or collapses. There are no dark matter, - only hardcore obsessions.

This was a bit big story, - but in reality it is a dangerous avalanche, - so soon the predicted time dilation is reveal, that heavy load will begin to move, - NOTHING can stop it.

So seen from a larger perspective, - the price to pay for a much much better world view, is in fact only to face that GPS in no way is scientific test system. Hell will soon break loose, no doubt about it.

None of that constitutes a scientific theory or hypothesis. You're just expressing doubt about the metaphors used to describe General Relativity and then asserting that GPS satellite systems MUST be administered with GROTESQUE incompetence as a justification for your doubts about a metaphor you do not understand. You are lying about the people responsible for GPS Satellites in order to protect your Argument from incredulity about General Relativity.

Do you have an argument to explain the lack of detected time dilation and orbital anomalies in GPS satellites that does NOT involve flat out lying about how the systems are administered and monitored?
 
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None of that constitutes a scientific theory or hypothesis. You're just expressing doubt about the metaphors used to describe General Relativity and then asserting that GPS satellite systems MUST be administered with GROTESQUE incompetence as a justification for your doubts about a metaphor you do not understand. You are lying about the people responsible for GPS Satellites in order to protect your Argument from incredulity about General Relativity.

Do you have an argument to explain the lack of detected time dilation and orbital anomalies in GPS satellites that does NOT involve flat out lying about how the systems are administered and monitored?

Rubbish
Now you what to look for and where
 
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