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The Theory of Relativity will begin to fall apart in 2016/2017

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dasmiller said:
THERE ARE NO LARGE REPEATING ANOMALIES IN THE GPS ORBITS. How can we look for the cause of a non-existent effect?
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Accepting no such anomalies exist would challenge his fan-fiction, ergo, he must conclude they exist to avoid disrupting his delusions. Remember, his belief in "Dark Flow" and his imagined flaws in General and Special Relativity is a religious one, not scientific. Your fundamental issue in interacting with him is that you conduct yourself as if you were having a discussion about science with a scientifically minded person. You are, in fact, arguing about how many angels can dance upon the head of a pin with someone who is convinced the number is 137, and that anyone who says otherwise is a servant of Satan.

Bjarne's lies about GPS technology and administration are "pious lies" for the greater good of his religion, not failures to understand what's going on.

There is more of this man in Bjarne's arguments:



Than this one:

 
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Bjarne said:
If a satellite trigger a alarm , the staff will take a look at why it happen, off course, - but if everything is as expected, and nobody know about that theory and measurement doesn't agree, its not sure any alarm will go.

Because the anomaly I expect not a escalating anomaly - this is only the case according to theory, not according to the "measured reality" after clock synchronize first one time is done.
So the measured time dilation will be understood as constant, - except off course influences caused by perturbation etc, .

Yes if someone should worry about the preccesion, the anomaly could easy be discovered, but why should anyone worry something is wrong ?

The point is; - when relativity have been tested 17 times when the first GPS 17 satellites was set in orbit, and everything seems to confirm the theory of relativity, it must be very very strange if satellite number 18 not also should confirm the theory too.

What I mean is, - after a lot of GPS satellites have confirmed relativity, I believe everyone is pretty relaxed, - not many really believe it is necessary to watch for failure in the theory itself.

So even if a very strange anomaly occurs with one or few GPS satellite, and even it seems to be a very unique anomaly, - not seen before, - what will then happen?

If anyone should suggest that such anomaly could be caused by a flaw in special theory of relativity, such a GPS staff member would most likely be considered as either nuts or stupid.

So many will think better don’t suggest such solution.
But even if this option finally could be a possible conclusion, - t I think the politic is to conclude “we don’t know”, - “don’t speak more about this before we know more” , because what happen if this instead was caused by a unknown technical error.
It can easy ruin multibillion business (as we already agree)

Who knows, - maybe unknown causes of anomalies is one of the reasons that ISS is chosen to be a test satellite for time dilation (and now also Galileo 5 & 6) ?’

At least we know, that this report ........
Benefits of a Centralized Anomaly Database and Methods for Securely Sharing Information Among Satellite Operators
http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/RR500/RR560/RAND_RR560.pdf

reveals confusion and suggestions how better to solve anomaly problems that clearly not always seems to be an easy task..
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Thank you for a nice narrative of how Bjarne would run a space-center.

But now, back to reality....

I am afraid that would be the case, - but so much points to the a simpler world view, will triumph over the old really sick paradigm that rules now.
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Well, I just had a talk with Reality and is says that it would really like to be far simpler, but unfortunately that would not really work. So we have to life with the necessary complexity, and those who cannot understand it can simply lean back and enjoy that it works.

Hans
 
dasmiller said:
Seriously, have you read anything I've written? There are people who've devoted their careers to understanding much smaller discrepancies in the GPS orbits. They speak about them a lot. They publish papers, conduct sessions at GPS conferences, argue with each other and various program managers.

And they argue over the little discrepancies because there are no big discrepancies.

.
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The ability to detect an anomaly is primarily based on you know what has gone wrong.
How can you verify the physical orbit of polar satellites are exactly what you think these are?
 
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MRC_Hans said:
Well, I just had a talk with Reality and is says that it would really like to be far simpler, but unfortunately that would not really work. So we have to life with the necessary complexity, and those who cannot understand it can simply lean back and enjoy that it works.
Hans
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Soon hindsight can very well show that the almost the entire human race have been victims for scientific bungling.

I know now this is difficult to believe, but things can fast change
 
Bjarne said:
The ability to detect an anomaly is primarily based on you knowing what has gone wrong.
How can you verify the physical orbit is exactly what you think it is?
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In the case of GPS, the results calculated by the GPS units would be wildly off if a satellite was drifting off track. Remember, GPS uses the distance to the satellite as part of the calculation. If the satellite is not where it's supposed to be, the resulting GPS location will be wrong.

Again, these anomalies are closely monitored and researched. You've already been given proof of this.

You have three choices:

1. Accept your theory is wrong.

2. Modify your theory to take into account a lack of GPS orbital deviations from General Relativity predictions.

3. Deny, deny, deny and desperately seek a loophole to claim the anomalies your theory predicts are actually there, just undetected.

So far, you are choosing option 3. This is the least scientifically literate and least honest option, but the one I find most entertaining to watch you try. Thank you for continuing to entertain me with absurd questions that have already been addressed.

You're a funny guy.
 
Bjarne said:
The ability to detect an anomaly is primarily based on you know what has gone wrong.
How can you verify the physical orbit is exactly what you think it is?
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Otherwise GPS would not work.
If the orbit is one meter off, your position will be one meter off.

Hans
 
Bjarne said:
Soon hindsight can very well show that the almost the entire human race have been victims for scientific bungling.

I know now this is difficult to believe, but things can fast change
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Well, Bjarne, your history of predictions is ... let's say less than optimal.

Hans
 
Bjarne said:
The ability to detect an anomaly is primarily based on you know what has gone wrong.
How can you verify the physical orbit of polar satellites are exactly what you think these are?
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How can we verify polar orbits? Because there are lots of polar satellites.

You started with a claim that there were none, when caught out, conceded there might be a few, when it was pointed out there were hundreds, you hid.

Not exactly a convincing argument, is it?
 
MRC_Hans said:
Otherwise GPS would not work.
If the orbit is one meter off, your position will be one meter off.

Hans
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Right, but still you can't be sure that the measured position is the same as the calculated.
I mean so long no test calculation is done
 
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halleyscomet said:
In the case of GPS, the results calculated by the GPS units would be wildly off if a satellite was drifting off track. Remember, GPS uses the distance to the satellite as part of the calculation. If the satellite is not where it's supposed to be, the resulting GPS location will be wrong.

Again, these anomalies are closely monitored and researched. You've already been given proof of this.

You have three choices:

1. Accept your theory is wrong.

2. Modify your theory to take into account a lack of GPS orbital deviations from General Relativity predictions.

3. Deny, deny, deny and desperately seek a loophole to claim the anomalies your theory predicts are actually there, just undetected.

So far, you are choosing option 3. This is the least scientifically literate and least honest option, but the one I find most entertaining to watch you try. Thank you for continuing to entertain me with absurd questions that have already been addressed.

You're a funny guy.
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4. Believe that relativity is not tested every day and by every satellite launch, - a.) the staff have more important things to do. b.) GPS is not a scientific test system, also not even if it easy could have been so.
 
Bjarne said:
lie
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Well, when you first proposed this nonsense, I handed you a list of some 187 active polar orbit satellites. You ignored it then, you will ignore it today.

I am not inclined to chase your ignorance. You demanded it, you ignored it, then you claimed it never happened.

Do you really think I am going to waste time on your wild claims and rootle back in the depths of this thread to find a previous iteration of your nonsensical ideas? Nope.
 
Bjarne said:
Perfect
Which just confirm that there are no reason to waste time on checking whether calculations fit the measured data..(off course except for the nuts and the idiots that don't believe in the prevailing interpretation of relativity) .
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Again, have you read anything I've written? The fact that they're continuously monitored does not mean that they're continuously updated, and in fact they are not. On average, the ephemeris message transmitted by a GPS spacecraft was created several hours earlier. If the predicted orbit was wrong, then the GPS ephemeris message would be wrong.

And they're not.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Otherwise GPS would not work.
If the orbit is one meter off, your position will be one meter off.

Hans
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Actually, it's worse than that. We always figured that if DOP was less than 4, we were doing pretty well.

(if DOP=4 and the spacecraft have 1 meter uncertainty, then the resulting uncertainty in the user position would be 4 meters)
 
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Bjarne said:
Right, but still you can't be sure that the measured position is the same as the calculated.
I mean so long no test calculation is done
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Bjarne said:
4. Believe that relativity is not tested every day and by every satellite launch, - a.) the staff have more important things to do. b.) GPS is not a scientific test system, also not even if it easy could have been so.
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BWHAHAHA!!!!!

The point has gone so far over your head (or the head of the character you're playing on this forum) that it might as well BE a satellite in orbit.

You're making the single most pathetic "God of the Gaps" argument in history, and I KNOW God of the Gaps arguments, I used to be a Creationist.

You might as well argue that you can't be SURE gasoline really burns because every car is not doing regular tests to see IF the gasoline is ACTUALLY burning. Never mind the fact that the cars wouldn't function if gasoline didn't burn and burn the way engineers and chemists expect it to burn.

Where DID you get this "Dark Flow" nonsense anyway? Did it come to you in a dream? A vision from an angel of light? Did a talking Dog tell you all about it? Pixies? I'm not going to ask if it was aliens, because that's just too stupid an idea to even bring up.

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Go home History Chanel, you're drunk again.
 
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