Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

[lobosrul5]

No. That is how a naval base communicates with a submarine. If you knew anything about submarines and ELF comms, you'd know they work only from land out to the submarine. Submarines cannot transmit via ELF. They can only receive.

The gargantuan transmission station needed to send out ELF comms should've been a clue for our illustrious CT'er... should've been.

 

[JayUtah]

You wanted to know how a submarine communicates with its base, so I pointed you in the direction that could inform you of how it works.

No, you're not the teacher. It appears you hastily Googled something that's neither relevant nor which you summarized correctly, but which might momentarily parry the question.

 

[lobosrul5]

The captain of Mariella managed to ring the Turku Coastguard on their landline after many attempts to get through.

Dear effing jesus, didn't we go over how cellphones work like 1000 pages ago??!

 

[JayUtah]

The gargantuan transmission station needed to send out ELF comms should've been a clue for our illustrious CT'er... should've been.

The difference between knowing and Googling.

 

[GlennB]

Dear effing jesus, didn't we go over how cellphones work like 1000 pages ago??!

Christ on a pogo stick is so much more colourful

 

[Mojo]

You wanted to know how a submarine communicates with its base, so I pointed you in the direction that could inform you of how it works.

I didn't ask you anything about submarines, I asked how Bildt's "intelligence guys" were informed of the sinking if "communications were down". How would a submarine have known about it?

And it turns out that you were wrong about how a submarine communicates with its base.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Christ on a pogo stick is so much more colourful

I think we've graduated to the full "Jesus H Christ motorcycle display team"

 

[GlennB]

I think we've graduated to the full "Jesus H Christ motorcycle display team"

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Dear effing jesus, didn't we go over how cellphones work like 1000 pages ago??!

And it's largely beside the point. Vixen is questioning your suggestion that the landlines themselves were working in Finland and Sweden during the time in question. Even if we were to grant that folks on Estonia couldn't reach shore (and that's granting a *lot* of premise for the sake of argument), that would only suggest that they were out of wireless service, not that the landlines themselves weren't working.

 

[junkshop]

Oh, come on now Vixen,

I'm sure that your source for these images:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172928635_4dc8d83e17_z.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172694184_96194853b5_z.jpg[/qimg]

that purport to be evidence of published newspaper stories before and after censorship in furtherance of a governmental cover-up, can't be so embarrassingly untrustworthy that you can't reveal them. I refuse to believe that a researcher of your calibre would post such a thing on faith, and without verification of their veracity.

I can't, therefore, understand your refusal/failure to credit your source.

Unless, perish the thought, you aren't seeing my posts due to an unmentionable forum function. Is this the case?

Say it ain't so! (although if it is, then I guess you can't).



Whatever the reason for your silence on this matter, rest assured that I shall continue (by way of an exemplar) to shine a spotlight on your refusal/failure to provide a citation for this claim and/or to credit its' source, whether I be shouting into the void or not.

 

[Mojo]

Oh, come on now Vixen,

I'm sure that your source for these images:

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172928635_4dc8d83e17_z.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53172694184_96194853b5_z.jpg[/qimg]

that purport to be evidence of published newspaper stories before and after censorship in furtherance of a governmental cover-up, can't be so embarrassingly untrustworthy that you can't reveal them. I refuse to believe that a researcher of your calibre would post such a thing on faith, and without verification of their veracity.

I can't, therefore, understand your refusal/failure to credit your source.

Unless, perish the thought, you aren't seeing my posts due to an unmentionable forum function. Is this the case?

Just in case it is...

 

[lobosrul5]

And it's largely beside the point. Vixen is questioning your suggestion that the landlines themselves were working in Finland and Sweden during the time in question. Even if we were to grant that folks on Estonia couldn't reach shore (and that's granting a *lot* of premise for the sake of argument), that would only suggest that they were out of wireless service, not that the landlines themselves weren't working.

IIRC her comments at one point made it clear to me that she didn't understand that a cellphone call hooks into the landline system once the radio signal from the phone gets to a tower.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

IIRC her comments at one point made it clear to me that she didn't understand that a cellphone call hooks into the landline system once the radio signal from the phone gets to a tower.

It sure is easy to lose track of which misconceptions one is addressing in these discussions, isn't it?

 

[JayUtah]

IIRC her comments at one point made it clear to me that she didn't understand that a cellphone call hooks into the landline system once the radio signal from the phone gets to a tower.

And then via submarine cable. Which, like submarine tracks, is apparently the long extension cord you use to keep in touch with submarines.

 

[Mojo]

And then via submarine cable. Which, like submarine tracks, is apparently the long extension cord you use to keep in touch with submarines.

They only work if they're kept tight between the two tin cans, of course. But running the submarines from the mains saves on buying batteries for them.

 

[The Common Potato]

Sweden is fascinating, actually: https://youtu.be/Sp4yf2ZwaWs


Robots: https://youtu.be/-8xmWUeDRWw

Oh well: https://youtu.be/orl49pvN9Q0

And I used to live in Guildford! LOL

https://youtu.be/a4IjrjMbmC4

Meh...

https://youtu.be/F7ZF2xaNhyw

 

[phiwum]

If it was a Swedish submarine that collided with the ship, as former State Prosecutor for Estonia, Margus Kurm, believes, then that tells you (a) the escort would have been arranged and known pf in advance and (b) the collision would be relayed to the defence forces pronto, and (c) the first to know would not be the coastguard, or the TT News Agency but... Commander Svensson who would surely have imparted the news pronto to who he reports to.

This reasoning doesn't make much sense.

It seems to me that your reasoning is the following:

(1) If Bildt knew about the disaster early, then this is evidence that he or his people were monitoring the ferry even before the disaster.

(2) If they were monitoring the ferry before the disaster, then there is more to the disaster than the official story.

So far so good, but you also claim that

(3) It is ridiculous to think that Bildt learned about the disaster from the media.

When asked why, you point out

(4) If the ferry was being escorted by a sub, then Bildt or his people would be monitoring it.

But we're not assuming that it was being escorted. Heck, if we believed that, then there would be no point to talk about whether or not Bildt learned about the disaster early. Just being escorted by a sub would be odd enough to cast doubt on the official story.

So your reason for claiming that Bildt didn't learn about the disaster from the media is roughly, "Let's assume that it was being escorted by a sub. Then of course he'd be following the details already."

It is a mighty twisted bit of, oh, let's call it reasoning.

 

[phiwum]

Lehtola, the newly appointed chair of the JAIC was reporting from the same press conference as Bildt and the Estonian PM. This took place on the late morning of 28.9.1994. It would have been in AFTONBLADET, which means...the EVENING NEWSPAPER. HS is a morning one. Aftonbladet being a tabloid doesn't have a decent library of back copies. But this was the story Bildt was keen to press on the Finns and the Estonians, using Sillaste as inspiration.

It would have been quicker to just say you had no sources or direct quotes.

 

[phiwum]

What? A poster thinks they might have all been informed by telephone, in which case how come Stockholm didn't get the Mayday? Yet Carl Bildt was informed as he was leaving his office party, as his intelligence guys were on the case.

You regularly confuse premises and conclusions.

Are you saying that the evidence for Bildt's early information is that his intelligence guys were on the case? If so, that is an unsupported premise.

Or did you mean to say that the fact (?) Bildt had early information is evidence that the intelligence guys were on the case?

Or perhaps you are taking for granted that he had early information and you are giving the best explanation that you know for why he had early information. It's hard to see why this would be the most plausible explanation, however.

But in each of these cases, there seems to be a lack of evidence that Bildt really did get early and reliable information.

 

[phiwum]

He was pulled aside coming out of his office so his intelligence guys clearly knew.

Sure. It has to be his intelligence guys. After all, no one else could possibly have informed him of a ferry accident. That sort of thing is reserved for the intelligence guys.