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The Rise of Hitler and The Age of Trump: A Comparison

The danger in the many anti-democratic moves by the GOP make the concern over killing - no, even just modifying - the filibuster seem quaint.

Can someone tell Manchin and Sinema?
 
Paul2 said:
The danger in the many anti-democratic moves by the GOP make the concern over killing - no, even just modifying - the filibuster seem quaint.

Can someone tell Manchin and Sinema?
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I kind of agree with Manchin that instead of killing the filibuster they need to return it to being hard to use. When a bill can be killed on the threat of the filibuster then it's too easy. If someone wants to use it, they should have to work hard for it. Force them to stand there and talk for 24 hours on the topic of the bill, or even better, make it 48 and allow them to switch out once, but they have to remain on topic without repeating themselves or it's over. Keep it but make it hard to use because otherwise what happens when the Reps eventually take back the Senate?
 
Maybe it's my tendency to logic, or propensity for fair play.

it seems wrong to require 60 votes to get a bill to go to the floor for discussion when the vote to pass it is 50 plus 1.

And it's all the more egregious when the filibuster succeeds if the votes are 53 to 35. Probably something as unbalanced as, say, 59 to 30 would still have the minority win. Just doesn't seem right...
 
PhantomWolf said:
I kind of agree with Manchin that instead of killing the filibuster they need to return it to being hard to use. When a bill can be killed on the threat of the filibuster then it's too easy. If someone wants to use it, they should have to work hard for it. Force them to stand there and talk for 24 hours on the topic of the bill, or even better, make it 48 and allow them to switch out once, but they have to remain on topic without repeating themselves or it's over. Keep it but make it hard to use because otherwise what happens when the Reps eventually take back the Senate?
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Follow the rules of "just a minute" where the contestants have to speak on a subject for one minute without hesitation, repetition (of any word apart from a handful of very common words such as 'a', 'the', 'and', 'or' and so on) or deviation from the subject.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_a_Minute
 
Lurch said:
Maybe it's my tendency to logic, or propensity for fair play.

it seems wrong to require 60 votes to get a bill to go to the floor for discussion when the vote to pass it is 50 plus 1.

And it's all the more egregious when the filibuster succeeds if the votes are 53 to 35. Probably something as unbalanced as, say, 59 to 30 would still have the minority win. Just doesn't seem right...
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That's because we live in Canada and we have a sensible democratic system. Imagine being in federal election for two years rather than, what, 5 weeks? Imagine waiting 4 hours in line to vote rather than 4 minutes. Imagine voting for public jobs that we have no business deciding. Imagine a Canadian politician spending half their time trying to get money for their next election. Etc.

The other day I compared the Canadian and US systems to Intelligent Design and Evolution, respectively. The former is efficient and lean, and makes sense to an observer. The latter is a messy, inefficient bureaucratic nightmare that all sorts of garbage DNA, but it kinda works anyway, and you don't dare try to alter it lest you just screw up the whole thing.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The result or not, without another cult leader the movement of rightwing radicals can follow, they will remain disorganized malcontents.

At this point in time, no way are those legislators capable of attracting and commanding a following.
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The 2022 midterms are going to be critical. I hope that the polls are right (and that the numbers stay that way) and Republicans are voted out of Congress and state government in a big way. But, if the economy doesn't pick up as the pandemic winds down, or otherwise goes south, or there is some foreign policy crisis that Biden doesn't handle well, or is perceived by more than the right wing kooks as mishandling, things could turn. I think there is a very real risk that, if for whatever reason the current crop of Republicans gain power in 2022 or 2024, they may succeed establishing a permanent right-wing dictatorship. I think we were very fortunate that Trump, in spite of his ability to gain a cult following, was an inept buffoon. If somebody less incompetent succeeds in gaining control of the Trump cult, we could still be in for a rough ride. The pandemic, bad as it has been, may have been a blessing in disguise, as I think Trump would have stood a good chance of reelection without it. If his presidency had had another four years, especially had it been combined with a Republican Congress, I don't think we would have gotten rid of them without a violent revolution.
 
CORed said:
The 2022 midterms are going to be critical. I hope that the polls are right (and that the numbers stay that way) and Republicans are voted out of Congress and state government in a big way. But, if the economy doesn't pick up as the pandemic winds down, or otherwise goes south, or there is some foreign policy crisis that Biden doesn't handle well, or is perceived by more than the right wing kooks as mishandling, things could turn. I think there is a very real risk that, if for whatever reason the current crop of Republicans gain power in 2022 or 2024, they may succeed establishing a permanent right-wing dictatorship. I think we were very fortunate that Trump, in spite of his ability to gain a cult following, was an inept buffoon. If somebody less incompetent succeeds in gaining control of the Trump cult, we could still be in for a rough ride. The pandemic, bad as it has been, may have been a blessing in disguise, as I think Trump would have stood a good chance of reelection without it. If his presidency had had another four years, especially had it been combined with a Republican Congress, I don't think we would have gotten rid of them without a violent revolution.
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Nothing makes extreme right wing groups flourish like paralyzed, ineffectual centrists running things.

If the 2022 election doesn't result in breaking the Manchin/Sinema conservative stranglehold on the Senate, the Biden administration is basically just going to be a brief interregnum between proto-fascist right-wing rule.

There are dire, systematic problems that are stressing this country to the breaking point. If there are not progressive/liberal/left solutions, there will be fascist solutions. The current situation cannot stand indefinitely, something is going to give.

Edit: It is kinda funny imagining libs rambling on about the Parliamentarian right before a crazed Q fascist lines them up on a wall to be shot.
 
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PhantomWolf said:
Keep it but make it hard to use because otherwise what happens when the Reps eventually take back the Senate?
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They'll kill it anyway the first chance it becomes beneficial to do so, as they did with nominating Supreme Court justices in order to ram through Judge Handmaiden.

"You can't blame us for not knowing they'd do the exact thing they've done before," the moderate Democrats will cry.

[ETA] Actually, they'd work in a slight somewhere as well. "If only those progressives weren't so radical our Republican colleagues would have been more cooperative with us!"
 
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Belz... said:
Is it too late to declare the Republican party to be a criminal organisation?
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Yes. You have to do that before they take control of the courts, government, and everything that gets to declare who or what is criminal.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Yes, because facts no longer matter.
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And that.

What do questions even mean in a world where facts no longer exist?

Are Republicans criminals? I don't know, do hats exist? It's all the same in a world with no agreed upon facts AND in which all means of effective discourse which could maybe get us to facts have been hate ****** to the point that doesn't exist anymore.

Facts don't exist and even if they did what does it matter its not like we can effectively talk about them anymore. What's the ******* point in even asking questions (and **** the first person who thinks the irony in the statement is the point.)
 
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Monica, Miles Mathis is also a raging antisemite and he is demonstrably wrong on many, if not all the things he says. Can you explain why you think he's right?
 
JoeMorgue said:
And that.

What do questions even mean in a world where facts no longer exist?

Are Republicans criminals? I don't know, do hats exist? It's all the same in a world with no agreed upon facts AND in which all means of effective discourse which could maybe get us to facts have been hate ****** to the point that doesn't exist anymore.

Facts don't exist and even if they did what does it matter its not like we can effectively talk about them anymore. What's the ******* point in even asking questions (and **** the first person who thinks the irony in the statement is the point.)
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Wait a minute. Before we even discuss this we have to talk about Hillary's e-mails.
 
JoeMorgue said:
And that.

What do questions even mean in a world where facts no longer exist?

Are Republicans criminals? I don't know, do hats exist? It's all the same in a world with no agreed upon facts AND in which all means of effective discourse which could maybe get us to facts have been hate ****** to the point that doesn't exist anymore.

Facts don't exist and even if they did what does it matter its not like we can effectively talk about them anymore. What's the ******* point in even asking questions (and **** the first person who thinks the irony in the statement is the point.)
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Because it is a source of personal entertainment.
 
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