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The Rise of Hitler and The Age of Trump: A Comparison

Stacyhs said:
Wow. So now the excuse is down to "Donny just didn't know any better. He didn't know that he couldn't cancel Congress and just appoint his own people and go around getting them approved by the Senate like he'd had to do for the last 3 years. That's why he threatened to do that when he wasn't getting his way.
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No, you don’t get what I was explaining

This is what Trump said during a press conference on April 15, 2020 that led to the hysteria among liberals
The senators left Washington until at least May 4th. The Constitution provides a mechanism for the President to fill positions in such circumstances. The Recess Appointment, it’s called. The Senate’s practice of gaveling into so-called proforma sessions, where no one is even there, has prevented me from using the constitutional authority that were given under the Recess Provisions. The Senate should either fulfill its duty and vote on my nominees, or it should formally adjourn so that I can make recess appointments.
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It’s clear what he was saying then is that he assumed he was operating under constitutional law.

What I said in my last post was it’s clear Trump hadn’t read that section of the constitution in context. If he did, he would’ve noticed it reads “the President has authority to adjourn Congress whenever the chambers cannot agree when to adjourn.” Which wasn’t the case last April.
 
MrFliop said:
Yes, I am aware of how those leaders “maintained” power. But, the rise of fascistic dictatorships, or any dictatorship for that matter, from democracies usually involves the restructuring and consolidation of power over time while still maintaining a facade of democracy. That’s not what Trump has done while he was in office. If his ultimate goal was to gain more power, why didn’t he do anything to change the foundations of government in his 4 years? Why was he being so patient?
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What gives you the idea that anyone could practically overnight wreak such a shocking change? There are still enough public servants (the courts figure prominently here, in spite of the hectic pace in installing right-wing judges these past four years) in positions that matter who won't so readily roll over and become corrupted. It takes time to replace them with pliable and willing toadies. It still has to look sufficiently above board, or at least not be outright signaling, "Look at us tear the government apart so we can hurry along with our dictatorship."

What's worrisome is that Drumpf's insurrection thus far hasn't cost him what it did Hitler for his Beer Hall putsch. But I guess that's the prerogative of being already in power.
 
MrFliop said:
No, you don’t get what I was explaining

This is what Trump said during a press conference on April 15, 2020 that led to the hysteria among liberals


It’s clear what he was saying then is that he assumed he was operating under constitutional law.

What I said in my last post was it’s clear Trump hadn’t read that section of the constitution in context. If he did, he would’ve noticed it reads “the President has authority to adjourn Congress whenever the chambers cannot agree when to adjourn.” Which wasn’t the case last April.
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I take it you're fine with an ignoramus as President who runs off his mouth about the first thoughts that pop into his head. Even though the White House has counsel who would be up on this stuff whom Drumpf could consult. Of course, based on all we've seen during his term, Drumpf is always pushing boundaries to see how far he can get. This was just such an instance, I'd say.
 
dudalb said:
In Nazi Germany one reason Hitler got power was that many on the left actually sided with the Nazis to bring down the Social Democrats because, in full knowledge that the Nazis would take over, they though the Nazis in power would result in the "radicization of the masses" and would only last a few months.
I am afraid some on the hard line left have a similiar opinion, even if they will not say so in public.
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Noam Chomsky brought up this very thing a couple weeks before the election and was immediately smeared as a no-good Liberal sympathizer by many independent leftist outlets.
 
dudalb said:
My nightmare is that the left imitates the right and is taken over by it's authoratrain wing. And anybody who thinks the US left does not have an Authoratrian wing is living in a fantasy world, protected by huge ideological blinders. 'No enemies to the left' might be just as destructive as "no enemies to the right".
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Yes you let us know all the time as if to reassure yourself that you are firmly moderate in today's polarized landscape, but I have trouble coming up with an authoritarian left-winger in mainstream politics. There are leftists who want to violently tear down American institutions and put anyone to the right of Jimmy Dore on trial, but they're usually preaching in obscure corners of the internet or end up on FBI watchlists, not in elected office.
 
Trump only ever had the Brown Shirts in the form of the scum who went to his rallies and those who stormed the capitol. Hitler also had military backing (though not universal) and the backing of key economic leaders. The military barely hid their disdain for Trump and the bankers on Wall Street took the 2017 tax bill but never really supported Trump.

When Trump made his move on 1/6 he only had Brown Shirts and it turns out that's not enough.
 
MrFliop said:
No, you don’t get what I was explaining.

This is what Trump said during a press conference on April 15, 2020 that led to the hysteria among liberals
Quote:
The senators left Washington until at least May 4th. The Constitution provides a mechanism for the President to fill positions in such circumstances. The Recess Appointment, it’s called. The Senate’s practice of gaveling into so-called proforma sessions, where no one is even there, has prevented me from using the constitutional authority that were given under the Recess Provisions. The Senate should either fulfill its duty and vote on my nominees, or it should formally adjourn so that I can make recess appointments.
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It’s clear what he was saying then is that he assumed he was operating under constitutional law.

What I said in my last post was it’s clear Trump hadn’t read that section of the constitution in context. If he did, he would’ve noticed it reads “the President has authority to adjourn Congress whenever the chambers cannot agree when to adjourn.” Which wasn’t the case last April.
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I get exactly what you were explaining. You didn't get my sarcastic rejection of your attempt to excuse what Trump was doing as "Trump probably not being a constitution expert, heard from someone or somewhere that he had the ability to recess and Congress and tried(unsuccessfully) to do it himself."

As Lurch pointed out, Trump didn't need to be a "Constitution expert"; he had access to a plethora of lawyers to advise him on what he could and couldn't do. They certainly knew that "“the President has authority to adjourn Congress whenever the chambers cannot agree when to adjourn, which was not the case at the time. They also knew that the Republicans had challenged Obama's recess appointments in 2012 and the Supreme Court had sided with them declaring that only the Senate can decide when it is in session--not the president.

Which do you think is more likely:

1) They just didn't bother to tell Donny that or 2) he ignored them because he does what he damn well wants?

I'll vote for #2 considering he also had this to say: "They've been warned, and they're being warned right now. We'll probably be challenged in court, and we'll see who wins."

For the third time you are evading my question regarding THE BIG LIE and its subversion of our democracy. Here....let me get hysterical and maybe you'll address it::mghissyfit
 
Stacyhs said:
I get exactly what you were explaining. You didn't get my sarcastic rejection of your attempt to excuse what Trump was doing as "Trump probably not being a constitution expert, heard from someone or somewhere that he had the ability to recess and Congress and tried(unsuccessfully) to do it himself."
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In actual fact "Trump probably not being a constitution expert, heard from someone or somewhere that he had the ability to recess and Congress and tried(unsuccessfully) to do it himself." isn't not an excuse, it just shows why Trump was never qualified to be a POTUS in the first place. He had no ******* idea what it takes to be the president of the United States. He spent most of his presidency golfing, tweeting, watching Faux News and eating Mackers!!
 
Craig4 said:
Trump only ever had the Brown Shirts in the form of the scum who went to his rallies and those who stormed the capitol. Hitler also had military backing (though not universal) and the backing of key economic leaders. The military barely hid their disdain for Trump and the bankers on Wall Street took the 2017 tax bill but never really supported Trump.

When Trump made his move on 1/6 he only had Brown Shirts and it turns out that's not enough.
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... wearing Red Hats
 
And similar to the Brown Shirts, the Mad MAGAs have a lot of implicit and explicit support from Law Enforcement.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
And similar to the Brown Shirts, the Mad MAGAs have a lot of implicit and explicit support from Law Enforcement.
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Sporadically but institutionally not really. For one thing, this was one of the few instances where having so many law enforcement agencies helped us. Support from a few agencies never really amounted to much. Trump certainly never had the support of the LEA in and around DC (the ones that matter in a coup).

If you're trying to overthrow Congress in Washington DC, the fact that the Kenosha police department supports you and that stupid kid with the Crocs, socks and AR doesn't really help you much.
 
MrFliop said:
So Presidents have never clashed with congress before? Has happened many times in US history. Also, don’t we hear every week in the news about some conflicts governors have with their state legislatures? Never heard them be accused of being part of some fascist conspiracy.
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I see we are back to the "he's not uniquely bad" excuse again.
 
kookbreaker said:
I see we are back to the "he's not uniquely bad" excuse again.
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Only he is uniquely bad. What other US president has declared that an election was stolen from him by voter fraud perpetrated by a conspiracy of a cabal of judges (many of whom he appointed) and state and federal legislators from both his own and the opposing party? What other US president has instigated and praised the participants of a violent attack upon our nation's Capitol in an effort to stop the official final process of that election? OH, hell yes: he is uniquely bad.
 
Belz... said:
To be fair no one should really ever listen to Noam Chomsky.
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Belz... I only bring him up to illustrate the toxicity of some on the American left when someone otherwise thought of as on their side on most issues tried to offer some perspective on Biden v Trump. And he was right!
 
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