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Tai Chi Chuan: Useful or bogus?

cgordon said:
Some folks can't understand why anyone would want to study a martial art that doesn't directly apply to (fill in the blank of your favorite reason for studying martial arts here).

Others just like to argue and still others are just the martial arts equivalent of fan-boys.

Bottom line: If you enjoy it, it's worthwhile.
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Jeez, THANK YOU! Man, I was thinking I did the equivalent of kicking around a hornet's nest on here.

Okay, there seems to still be some confusion on this topic. I'm going to go ahead and reiterate. I am not studying Tai Chi to learn to fight. I do not want to learn to fight. I am useless in a fight and probably always will be unless I am holding a gun or a massive whirling chainsaw with lasers attached.So I'm not looking to learn to fight. I didn't even know Tai Chi HAD a fighting style, and can't say I really give a damn. I'm just trying to complement the workout I get at work.

Okay, so, moving along...I don't have a lot of money. Like, EVER. So going to someone and paying him to tutor me, while it would probably be a helluva good idea, is just not in my price range. So, if I'm not completely insulting anyone by even suggesting this, is there an accessible book I could get my hands on that anyone knows of, that'll let me get my feet wet, see if it works for me? I bought some damned thing at Barnes & Noble, but it's really laying the chi on thick and, anyway, the movement descriptions are hard to understand.

So, any help on that would be great. Unless someone here's going to say something like "Well, if you can't be bothered to find a real master, blah blah blah I hate you I hope your children die blah blah blah", then you can just safely ignore me. Your hatred has probably already been noted.

Thank you. I now return you to your regularly scheduled argument, already in progress...
 
Nihilanth,

I've only ever dabbled in the Chinese stuff (Pa Kua and Hsing I, for a coupl eyears back in the late 70s, early 80s or so), but from a general standpoint, trying to learn martial arts from a book is pretty much a waste of time. Pictures are, well, just that, a snapshot of movement. They seldom provide enough info to tell you HOW to get from movement A to B correctly.

If you want to dabble in the movement of Tai Chi, you might try to find a video or DVD. Still not as good as a live teacher, but should give you a better sense of the flow from point A to point C, etc.

Better yet, check around your local community centers and such. Many places offer martial arts instruction pretty cheaply, sometimes free.
 
If you're doing it just for the workout, don't worry about doing it "right." It's probably just as effective to improvise slow motion movements. So you don't need to buy a book or video, just make it all up as you go along. It will be just as beneficial as the "real" tai chi.
 
Nihilanth said:
Okay, so, moving along...I don't have a lot of money. Like, EVER. So going to someone and paying him to tutor me, while it would probably be a helluva good idea, is just not in my price range. So, if I'm not completely insulting anyone by even suggesting this, is there an accessible book I could get my hands on that anyone knows of, that'll let me get my feet wet, see if it works for me? I bought some damned thing at Barnes & Noble, but it's really laying the chi on thick and, anyway, the movement descriptions are hard to understand.
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Get a dvd...if you have a dvd player.

Find out if people do tai chi in a nearby park. You can watch them and copy them for free.
 
thaiboxerken said:
If you're doing it just for the workout, don't worry about doing it "right." It's probably just as effective to improvise slow motion movements. So you don't need to buy a book or video, just make it all up as you go along. It will be just as beneficial as the "real" tai chi.
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once again, showing your little knowledge on tai chi. Stick with muay thai. Only listen to people who actually do tai chi...okay Ba gua and xing-I are also good to listen to.

Your breathing is important. Your posture is important. Also, you'll want to get a dvd on qigong.
 
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firecoins said:
Only listen to people who actually do tai chi...
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This is another mantra that comes from the mouths of believers.

Breathing is a simple exercise one can learn from a book or even this post. Breathe in through the nose, out through the mouth and let your lungs and diaphram expand and collapse fully.

Posture: don't stand in weird ways that hurt your back.

There, now just make up some weird movments, do it in slow motion, put on some silk robes and you're doing tai chi.

Firecoin, feel free to post scientific evidence that tai chi is any more healthful than other low impact exercises.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Breathing is a simple exercise one can learn from a book or even this post. Breathe in through the nose, out through the mouth and let your lungs and diaphram expand and collapse fully.

Posture: don't stand in weird ways that hurt your back.

There, now just make up some weird movments, do it in slow motion, put on some silk robes and you're doing tai chi.
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To do Muay Thai just throw some elbows and kicks at a punching bag and you pretty much have the whole martial art. Than your ready for MMA. You don't need to take classes. OH WAIT, thats an oversimplification.

thaiboxerken said:
Firecoin, feel free to post scientific evidence that tai chi is any more healthful than other low impact exercises.
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ONCE AGAIN, your inserting claims NEVER made to begin with.
 
firecoins said:
ONCE AGAIN, your inserting claims NEVER made to begin with.
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Yet that is the exact position you are defending.

Pretending to do Tai Chi is probably just as beneficial to health as doing "real" Tai Chi. That's my position and that's the one you've been attacking, yet you don't "claim" that Tai Chi is more healthy than other low impact exercise?
 
thaiboxerken said:
Yet that is the exact position you are defending.

Pretending to do Tai Chi is probably just as beneficial to health as doing "real" Tai Chi. That's my position and that's the one you've been attacking, yet you don't "claim" that Tai Chi is more healthy than other low impact exercise?
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once again, no one is advocating that. You are inserting things.

Here are some scientific studies done reguarding tai chi.
Tai Chi and Arthritus
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/91/100965.htm

Tai Chi and weight loss
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/124/115530.htm

Tai Chi and Senior Citizens
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/107/108721.htm

tai chi and Shingles
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/74/89134.htm

tai chi helps chronic conditions
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/83/97754.htm
 
firecoins said:
once again, no one is advocating that. You are inserting things
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Then stop attacking my statement that pretending to to Tai Chi is probably just as beneficial to health than doing "real" Tai Chi. Stop trying to convince people that they need to learn from an instructor to get the health benefits. The only thing really important is to actually do low-impact exercise, as far as health goes.
 
I thought it was an old* story that t’ai chi moves are functional martial techniques. I was taught that the idea was to learn a small inventory of moves that would suffice for all emergencies.

I’ve seen TC done fast, medium, and slow, and practiced it all three ways, and I’m all for slow solo practice; it’s good for you, dammit! Also, the meditative aspect is good for your mind: it makes you a cannier, more watchful boxer. It does not make you in any way tougher or stronger, and there certainly is no such thing as chi.

Yes, I can speak with about 12.5% authority. Heck, I’m the guy who invented Sai Chi (copyright 1977, all rights reserved, keepa you hands off). I’d seen sword and staff forms, and had a pair of sai I didn’t know what to do with. One day I started solo practice with my trusty sai in my hands, and presto! I discovered that those moves are adaptable to that nasty-looking weapon. Somewhere in the world there’s an old super-8 movie of me demonstrating my marvelous martial art. If you own a pair of sai and like TC, try your hand at it. Fun! .

*Not extremely old, of course. We have no evidence of TC before the 18th. century. That may seem pretty venerable to the red-faced sea devils, but in China it’s yesterday afternoon.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Then stop attacking my statement that pretending to to Tai Chi is probably just as beneficial to health than doing "real" Tai Chi. Stop trying to convince people that they need to learn from an instructor to get the health benefits. The only thing really important is to actually do low-impact exercise, as far as health goes.
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Taiji is only low impact in the Long Form (the main, basic training form, the "slow" form), but for the rest it's as athletic as any martial art (depending on the intensity of training).

Here are some clips of forms and push hands in Chen style Taijiquan (these sorts of clips have only started appearing on the internet in the last 3 or 4 years or so). The other styles, taught authentically, are perhaps a bit less athletic than Chen, but not by much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znVWJ4PmURw (Wang Xian demonstrating some locks and takedowns from push hands. Push hands is the intermediate step between grasping the body mechanics through lots of practice of the Long Form, and actually fighting. There's quite an involved, graduated series of drills, getting more and more free-form and more and more like free fighting.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxxebP0u31g (Chen Xiaowang - 60 years old here, so at least we know Taiji training isn't positively detrimental to your health! - demonstrating "fajin". This is the "other half" of Taiji, the ability to hit damn hard with any part of the body, from any angle, which complements the "soft" strategy demonstrated in the sensitivity training of push hands practice.)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6618160624251027808 (A slow motion clip showing some of the whole-body mechanics involved in a side punch - note how the movement starts at the feet - Taiji derives power from the solidity of the ground, directs that solidity of the ground through the waist, and express it at whatever bodily part is closest and most convenient. The principle is to end up with a connected line of bones from the ground to the target at the point of impact, with the only muscles being tense at that point being the muscles that maintain the line of bones as a rigid transmitter of the ground's solidity, the rest of the body being more or less relaxed - although there are sophisticated additives from the correct kind of whole body tension at the point of impact too.)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9037572490314650002 (A clip showing the Big Knife, a sort of halberd, which is quite heavy)
 
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firecoins said:
TBK obviously has no idea what tai chi is. His advice should not be taken. You need an intructor to learn Tai Chi. If you are looking for just the health benefits one get from tai chi without the instructor may I suggest qigong. http://www.amazon.com/Eight-Simple-...pd_bbs_sr_3/102-5316268-8624166?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

This qigong is easier to learn properly from DVD. I learned it in a 2 day workshop.
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I learned the 8 Brocade in 10 minutes. Wrote it down and never did it. Totally pointless. Sorry. I have a simple belief that if it doesn't warm me up, make me breathe hard or hurt a bit it's probably not doing me any good. Unless it's beer or wine of course.
 
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