Ritual abuse convictions in the UK... real, or another hoax?

[Checkmite]

I'm a little concerned that the alleged PhD who wrote this article or book or whatever it is evidently never had to learn APA formatting in the process of getting his degree. "for newspaper reports, see Gyan, 2010; Lemoine, 2008a, 2008b" is a completely useless cite in terms being able to cross-check the information for ourselves.

 

[ddt]

The title of this thread, and much of the commentary, sound neither objective or skeptical. Rather, this conversation more than hints at a confirmation bias, apparently born of a deeply held belief, e.g. ritual abuse does not exist so this case must be a hoax.

I'd like to understand the rules here. Are there other scenarios in which child abuse just cannot happen? If a pedophile wears a clown suit, does the abuse not happen because everybody knows there's no such thing as clown abuse?

Clowns you say? Google "Oude Pekela". In fact, when I type that Dutch town's name into Google, it offers "clown" as first choice for the next search term, the town is not known for anything else. Here is a comprehensive write-up in English about the case from 1987.

Of course a pedophile can dress up as a clown. But they can't whisk away the children, abuse them, and treat their wounds in such a way they're not visible anymore, in the short time they're not accounted for between leaving pre-school/kindergarten and returning home. I got that 25 years ago also when this story was frontpage news here.

So it depends very much on the rest of the story, and whether the testimonies of the alleged victims are corroborated by independent evidence.

 

[ddt]

I'm a little concerned that the alleged PhD who wrote this article or book or whatever it is evidently never had to learn APA formatting in the process of getting his degree. "for newspaper reports, see Gyan, 2010; Lemoine, 2008a, 2008b" is a completely useless cite in terms being able to cross-check the information for ourselves.

I don't know about APA rules for citation, but when I was in academia that kind of citation was common in my discipline (computing science), and you can easily find the cited articles/reports/books in the bibliography. However, the article is behind a paywall so I can't see it.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Of course a pedophile can dress up as a clown. But they can't whisk away the children, abuse them, and treat their wounds in such a way they're not visible anymore, in the short time they're not accounted for between leaving pre-school/kindergarten and returning home. I got that 25 years ago also when this story was frontpage news here.

Indeed. It's too bad police, judges, juries and child psychologists did not share your grasp of the obvious.

The Cornwall case adds an interesting wrinkle, because the authorities found suspects who are more plausible as ritual abusers than middle-aged women running day care facilities. But the B-movie story line hasn't changed, and the logistics of the alleged crimes are as daunting as ever.

Perhaps GG Science would care to elaborate on why a true skeptic should accept the official story at face value.

 

[marplots]

Isn't the distinction between ritual abuse and regular abuse the "ritual" part? I mean, the purpose isn't simply to get off or feed a pedophile need, it's to worship Satan or something like that. Kind of the difference between enjoying bread and receiving the Eucharist.

It seems to me a pedophile wouldn't fit the picture as much as a religious zealot would. In fact, the perpetrator might find it completely disgusting, but necessary. Is there a way to distinguish the real ritual offender from someone who dresses up in a costume to do what they'd do anyhow?

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Isn't the distinction between ritual abuse and regular abuse the "ritual" part? I mean, the purpose isn't simply to get off or feed a pedophile need, it's to worship Satan or something like that. Kind of the difference between enjoying bread and receiving the Eucharist.

It seems to me a pedophile wouldn't fit the picture as much as a religious zealot would. In fact, the perpetrator might find it completely disgusting, but necessary. Is there a way to distinguish the real ritual offender from someone who dresses up in a costume to do what they'd do anyhow?

Pedophiles might use any props or narratives to manipulate children for their purposes.

"Ritual abuse," however, involves a cluster of myths:

- Multiple personality disorder (which has lately been repackaged as dissociative identity disorder)

- Recovered memory

- Bizarre ceremonies with sexual overtones, involving multiple offenders and multiple child victims

Ritual abuse is similar to alien abductions, in that it involves extraordinary claims for which there is never any physical proof or independent corroboration.

The social phenomenon can be traced to a couple of books:

Sybil

Michelle Remembers

In the 1980s, the US experienced a rash of criminal prosecutions involving allegations of ritual abuse by daycare workers. Prosecutors and social workers used bribes and threats to get young children to describe abuse that never happened. The resulting stories combined the sexual preoccupation of adults with the fantasies of young children. Clowns and secret rooms became part of the lore. In the McMartin preschool case, authorities spent months digging for non-existent tunnels under the school.

Juries suspended all disbelief and convicted scores of innocent defendants, and it took years to get these people out of prison. I think a few are still locked up.

The single best book about this phenomenon is Satan's Silence by Debbie Nathan. I passed on my copy years ago, and recently bought a Kindle version for $3. It was littered with OCR typos. but the content was all there. Now that I have recommended it in a number of posts, the publisher has withdrawn it. I wrote Nathan about this but haven't heard back.

But, for $11, you can buy the Kindle edition of No Crueler Tyrannies by Dorothy Rabinowitz. It too is an excellent book, but it doesn't probe the origins of this phenomenon in as much detail as Nathan's book.

Meanwhile, the myths related to ritual abuse - recovered memory and multiple personalities caused by childhood trauma - continue to percolate through a subculture of fraudulent therapists and their troubled patients. A crank by the name of Judy Byington has published a book called Twenty-Two Faces. The warriors of JREF are doing battle with Byington and her acolytes on the Amazon comments section, and they are discussing this effort here.

Now comes this zany case in the UK, where the myth of ritual abuse has been dusted off and presented once again in a criminal trial that ended with a conviction. Byington and her fans are ebullient... here's proof that ritual abuse really does exist!

That's why this case needs to be examined. It affords an official endorsement of pop-culture nonsense that has harmed a lot of people over the years.

 

[GG Science]

Welcome to the forum, GG Science.

I think you'll find that people here are skeptical that this is a case of satanic ritual abuse because no reports mention any Satanism.

Thanks for the clarification Orphia!

I'm looking for a definition of ritual abuse, and I can't find one that states it is exclusive to satanist groups. It's an odd phrase to use anyway, I think people abuse rituals all the time.

People do abuse children in group settings, I can't figure out why it seems incredible to some that perpetrators would also incorporate ideological and ceremonial aspects, especially if they're trying to rationalize their criminality.

 

[GG Science]

Perhaps GG Science would care to elaborate on why a true skeptic should accept the official story at face value.

I don't recall advocating that view. However, being skeptical becomes a false badge when one's biases lead to denial of evidence.

Pedophiles might use any props or narratives to manipulate children for their purposes.

"Ritual abuse," however, involves a cluster of myths:

I don't understand how you can make a distinction between these two, is it purely rhetorical or ...? Certainly ritual abuse can exist if "Pedophiles might use any props or narratives to manipulate children for their purposes."

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I don't understand how you can make a distinction between these two, is it purely rhetorical or ...? Certainly ritual abuse can exist if "Pedophiles might use any props or narratives to manipulate children for their purposes."

Real pedophiles, to the best of my knowledge, do not coalesce around any system of shared beliefs or ceremonial practices.

They may form groups on the Internet for the purpose of trading pornography and access to the children in their care. They may use the services of tour operators who arrange trips to impoverished countries for the purpose of exploiting children.

But they do not put on robes and murmur chants while abusing their victims, as described in the Cornwall case. Nor have they infiltrated the daycare industry, as alleged in many US cases from the 1980s.

 

[marplots]

(some snipped)
Now comes this zany case in the UK, where the myth of ritual abuse has been dusted off and presented once again in a criminal trial that ended with a conviction. Byington and her fans are ebullient... here's proof that ritual abuse really does exist!

That's why this case needs to be examined. It affords an official endorsement of pop-culture nonsense that has harmed a lot of people over the years.

It seems the problem isn't abuse, per se, but the associated myths. If someone can use a real instance of ritual abuse to support the woo of DID and recovered memory, that link needs to be broken. Otherwise, we are left arguing that "something doesn't happen" that really does in the service of busting diagnostic tools without scientific backing.

It's like arguing against an earth-centric solar system by having to claim the sun doesn't rise and set. What we'd like to do is argue that yes, there is such a thing as sunrise and sun set, but it's not what we think it is. Separate the phenomenon from the explanation.

This is critical in ritual abuse cases because the link to child abuse is so emotional and compelling.

 

[Checkmite]

Yes, that child abuse occurs is not at issue; children are molested and otherwise exploited with a depressing regularity in our time. Nor is anyone contesting that religious figures can abuse children; Catholic and other clergy have been known to rape, and a number of children have been tortured and killed during prolonged and secretive "exorcism" rituals.

But in all these cases there's not just claims, there's evidence - crime scenes have been definitively identified, physical traces found, bodies located, injuries documented, confessions given, documents recovered. This is something that in the particular case of satanic/pagan cult ritual abuse just doesn't happen. There are claims, and occasionally a specific location is given, but nothing else. There is also the fact that the notion of a generic "ceremony" involving robes, nonspecific "chanting" and child molestation without any apparent purpose does not seem to match any religious rite known to anthropology whether satanic, pagan, or any other religion.

Does that mean there can't be one? Certainly not; after all, very earlier on in the thread I linked to a just recent case in which a man carved a huge pentagram into his young son's back on 12/12/12 because it was a "holy day". Certainly 12/12/12 wasn't "holy" to any currently-known religion; it's likely the person invented his own unique religion, as people sometimes do. But when that happens, it's only ever "one person", at most with a friend or two. The idea that someone could think up a religion that involves gathering children and molesting them for some spiritual purpose, and that large numbers of people would be on board with such a thing to the point where they're bringing dozens of children to these "ceremonies" strains credulity.

 

[marplots]

Checkmite, your post reminds me of other failed forensic tools, like handwriting analysis or personality testing or the notorious lie detector.

We need to find a way to debunk the tool without seeming to support the crimes (if any). Bad science in the service of justice is still bad science, but it can become a case of the ends justifying the means. I am thinking now about poor investigative techniques that rewrote the science of arson analysis in the last decade (I think, going on memory here).

Of course we want to convict the bad guys. We just don't want to make things up to do so. Aye, there's the rub!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I don't see anything but eye witness testimony. The accusations are hard to believe went unnoticed by the parents.

So far, it sadly looks like a witch hunt.

If there is any physical evidence let me know, I didn't spend hours looking.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

....

But in all these cases there's not just claims, there's evidence - crime scenes have been definitively identified, physical traces found, bodies located, injuries documented, confessions given, documents recovered. This is something that in the particular case of satanic/pagan cult ritual abuse just doesn't happen. There are claims, and occasionally a specific location is given, but nothing else. There is also the fact that the notion of a generic "ceremony" involving robes, nonspecific "chanting" and child molestation without any apparent purpose does not seem to match any religious rite known to anthropology whether satanic, pagan, or any other religion.....

"These cases" as in other cases? Not this one, right?

 

[GG Science]

But they do not put on robes and murmur chants while abusing their victims, as described in the Cornwall case.

That's an assertion of belief, it cannot be a statement of fact, as it stands, in the negative, especially applied to human behavior that arguably has precedent in other cultures and ages.

Sometimes Wiki suffices...

Human sacrifice is the act of killing one or more human beings as part of a religious ritual (ritual killing). Its typology closely parallels the various practices of ritual slaughter of animals and of religious sacrifice in general. Human sacrifice has been practiced in various cultures throughout history.

Otherwise, we are left arguing that "something doesn't happen" that really does in the service of busting diagnostic tools without scientific backing.

Exactly.

Anyway, a short search suggests some people do "put on robes and murmur chants while abusing their victims", unless of course the BBC and The Guardian, UK police, courts, etc., are perpetrating a hoax. For what purpose, I cannot imagine.

BBC News Wales
Kidwelly sex cult members face long jail sentences
9 March 2011 Last updated at 14:48 ET

Members of a sex cult in a small Carmarthenshire town have been warned they face long prison sentences.

Cult leader Colin Batley, 48, was found guilty of more than 35 offences against children and young adults.

Batley had moved from London to Kidwelly as the self-styled high priest of the occult group which brainwashed and abused children.

Why is child abuse tied to witchcraft on the rise?
Evidence is emerging that a growing number of children are being subjected to exorcism rituals. Louise Hunt
The Guardian, Tuesday 17 January 2012

In 2005, three adults in east London were convicted of child cruelty to another eight-year-old, from Angola. She had been starved, beaten, cut with a knife and had chilli peppers rubbed in her eyes in the belief that she was possessed.

Africans Unite Against Child Abuse (Afruca), a children's rights charity working with African communities in the UK, told the Commons committee that faith-based abuse is on the rise. Afruca chair Prospera Tedam said: "Over the last year, we have seen and worked with 12 cases in the London area of what we perceive as severe abuse and neglect arising from these beliefs of witchcraft."

Thames torso boy was sacrificed

Police suspect the victim was a West African child slave, after forensic evidence points to a ritual killing, report Martin Bright and Paul Harris

A close examination of the cuts where the head and limbs were sliced from the body shows that they were carried out by an expert using extremely sharp knives specially prepared for the purpose. In a horrific operation reminiscent of animal sacrifice, the flesh around the limbs and neck was first cut down to the bones, which were then slashed with a single blow from an implement much like a butcher's meat cleaver. Adam would have been stretched out horizontally or upside down during the sacrifice and kept in position while the blood was drained from the body.

Officers working on the case believe that the level of expertise involved could show the perpetrators imported a magician or priest to carry out the ritual. They also believe the amputated body parts will have been kept as powerful magical trophies.

Richard Hoskins, a lecturer in the Study of Religions at Bath Spa University, who has studied ritual killings across Africa, said: 'This looks like a deviant variety of a West African religion. Someone would have done it to gain power. But the vast majority of Africans would find this abhorrent.'

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

That's an assertion of belief, it cannot be a statement of fact, as it stands, in the negative, especially applied to human behavior that arguably has precedent in other cultures and ages.

Sometimes Wiki suffices...

I think human sacrifice as a public ritual involving a whole community is a different beast. If everyone is in on it, that's rather different to a subgroup kidnapping outgroup member's kids and torturing them. That second kind of ritual abuse seems much, much harder to sustain and is either near-mythical or totally mythical.

Either way, given the prevalence of spurious ritual abuse claims we should be very cautious about ritual abuse allegations that have no hard evidence to back them up, and require implausibly large and resourceful conspiracies.

If ninety-nine out of every one hundred green beetles are Common Green Beetles and one in one hundred is a Grunwort's Lesser Green Beetle, we should be very careful about jumping to the conclusion that any given green beetle is the very rare kind. Large-scale Satanic ritual child abuse conspiracies that are real are at best very rare compared to the confabulated kind, and more likely they don't exist at all.

Anyway, a short search suggests some people do "put on robes and murmur chants while abusing their victims", unless of course the BBC and The Guardian, UK police, courts, etc., are perpetrating a hoax. For what purpose, I cannot imagine.

Africa does indeed still have a small but ongoing problem with ritual murders, which have yet to be completely stamped out. Not so much European cultures.

Similarly small cults abusing their own children happens relatively often and is one justifiable reason why people have bad associations with cults. However they don't tend to kidnap outgroup children and molest them.

 

[Checkmite]

"These cases" as in other cases? Not this one, right?

As in, the ones alluded to in the preceding paragraph, yes.

 

[Checkmite]

Anyway, a short search suggests some people do "put on robes and murmur chants while abusing their victims", unless of course the BBC and The Guardian, UK police, courts, etc., are perpetrating a hoax. For what purpose, I cannot imagine.

None of these cases seem to involve robes or chanting, unless you're not quoting the relevant sections.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

None of these cases seem to involve robes or chanting, unless you're not quoting the relevant sections.

The Colin Batley case involves hooded robes and all the trappings of a classic ritual abuse case.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12703785

Check out the video.

Batley and three women were convicted.

Once again we have adult witnesses making a complaint about crimes that are alleged to have happened years earlier, when they were children...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/teenager-forced-into-a-satanic-sex-cult-904455

This is very interesting. I didn't know about this case.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Anyway, a short search suggests some people do "put on robes and murmur chants while abusing their victims", unless of course the BBC and The Guardian, UK police, courts, etc., are perpetrating a hoax. For what purpose, I cannot imagine.

I can't imagine why police and prosecutors in the US railroaded hundreds of innocent people for crimes that never really happened, but they did. The Mondale Act affords a partial explanation... the bigger the problem, the more money was available to the agencies charged with addressing the problem.

In the UK, I suspect this may be a partial explanation:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/victims-and-witnesses/cica