Regarding Franko...

[CWL]

So I am delusional for bringing up an interesting question A-Theist fanatic?

I wonder who is really delusional in reality???

Franko old buddy,

You will be pleased to hear that you are temporarily off ignore as I am hoping that you will explain how quantum gravity works.

This is your chance not only to bring up intersting questions but to provide interesting answers.

Don't be a stranger.

 

[MRC_Hans]

When you drive your Car radiating-A-Theist, do YOU control the CAR, or does the CAR control YOU?

Hey, Frank, dont duck MY question. If tlop is a consciousness superiour to me, how come tlop cannot drive the car at least as well without me? How come driving becomes dangerous when the driver is drunk?

Hans

 

[Franko]

Hey, Frank, dont duck MY question. If tlop is a consciousness superiour to me, how come tlop cannot drive the car at least as well without me?

For the same reason you can't Control your Car without arms, hands, and eyes.

How come driving becomes dangerous when the driver is drunk?

Dangerous for who? The driver or TLOP?

 

[Franko]

You will be pleased to hear that you are temporarily off ignore as I am hoping that you will explain how quantum gravity works.

Why would I do any favor for a stupid sh*thead hypocrite like yourself who can't (or won't) defend any of his own beliefs and contributes NOTHING to this site but a bunch of whiney complaints to the moderators and loads of ass-kissing to the other "superior" A-Theists.

 

[CWL]

Frannie-Wannie-Fluffie-Snuggles,

But I did post my thoughts on morality: here. See in particular my reply to Joshua Korosi.

As to me reporting you to the moderators; Oops, your paranoia is showing again. Forgot to take our pills today did we?

Your turn: Quantum gravity?

 

[Franko]

Say what?

Your posts there don't address any of the questions that made you run and hide from me the other day.

Don't you remember how I pointed out all of your hypocritical statements regarding the concept of rewards and punishments, and then you threw a little temper tantrum and put me on your IGNORE list?

Everyone else here remembers ...

 

[CWL]

Say what?

Your posts there don't address any of the questions that made you run and hide from me the other day.

Don't you remember how I pointed out all of your hypocritical statements regarding the concept of rewards and punishments, and then you threw a little temper tantrum and put me on your IGNORE list?

Everyone else here remembers ...

Don't worry Frankie. You will soon be back on my ignore list. Just thought I'd give you a fair opportunity to explain quantum gravity first. I simply could not resist this unique opportunity to expose you for the intellectual charlatan and pseudo skeptic that you are. I must say, the sound of crickets is so far overwhelming.

As to me not addressing the question of acting moral without fear of punishment your assertion that I have not done so is of course a blatant lie (as usual). I quote from the link submitted above:

I would like to add another factor as to why non-belivers in punishment or reward after death act moral - and I believe that such factor is in fact the underlying reason for one's concern of one's reputation etc.

We humans are a social animal. One of the secrets behind our evolutionary success is co-operation, i.e. using our individual intelligence in combination with the intelligence of other human beings.

I would argue that evolution has to a large extent sorted out humans with extreme anti-social behaviour. This is done even today - people who cannot resist acting immoral are banished from society.

I would therefore further argue, that for the majority of human beings, evolution has bestowed unto us an intrinsic compassion for other human beings. This explains why one gets a guilty conscience when one commits an immoral act. I think that this it is this instinctive will to act moral - in the best interest of the flock or tribe - that generally makes most people abstain from criminal behaviour.

If we could only tap into those instincs and apply them to all of mankind instead of just the family, flock, tribe our country, I believe that the world would be a much better place.

 

[shemp]

Don't worry Frankie. You will soon be back on my ignore list. Just thought I'd give you a fair opportunity to explain quantum gravity first. I simply could not resist this unique opportunity to expose you for the intellectual charlatan and pseudo skeptic that you are. I must say, the sound of crickets is so far overwhelming.

As to me not addressing the question of acting moral without fear of punishment your assertion that I have not done so is of course a blatant lie (as usual). I quote from the link submitted above:

CWL, yours is the 666th post in this thread. Clearly, you are doomed to eternal hellfire!

 

[CWL]

CWL, yours is the 666th post in this thread. Clearly, you are doomed to eternal hellfire!

Ssssh! Don't tell You-Know-Who. I think the Einstein thingy is beginning to put him off the scent.

 

[CWL]

You can start by answering this question:

If your assumption of hierachy:

TLOP > Driver > Car

is correct, how come TLOP cannot drive my car without me?

Denmark, twelve points. Danemark, douze points.

 

[Franko]

CryingWhineyLawyer,

Don't worry Frankie. You will soon be back on my ignore list.

Well, since you seem unable or unwilling to actually explain ANY of the whacky nonsense YOU believe that doesn’t surprise me one bit, CWL.

Just thought I'd give you a fair opportunity to explain quantum gravity first.

Ohh, I can explain the things I believe CWL, it is YOU who cannot and will not.

Predictable behavior from your typical hypocritical A-Theist Religious fanatic …

I simply could not resist this unique opportunity to expose you for the intellectual charlatan and pseudo skeptic that you are.

… By putting me on your IGNORE list and then dedicating all of your posts to me?

Why do I get the feeling that even Fool, MRC, and Trixy are having problems swallowing that load of A-Theist “logic”???

If you really think you are Fooling ANYONE then you are even more deluded than I thought. But after all these weeks, it is truly hysterical watching you completely implode like this, for all to see.

I must say, the sound of crickets is so far overwhelming.

Yes … one wonders why a religious fanatic and Troll such as yourself even bothered coming to the Religion & Philosophy section of a SKEPTICS forum in the first place. Obviously you NEVER had any intention of explaining What you believe, and Why you believe it. You are only here to spread your hypocrisy, hate, and cynicism.

As to me not addressing the question of acting moral without fear of punishment your assertion that I have not done so is of course a blatant lie (as usual). I quote from the link submitted above:

I would like to add another factor as to why non-belivers in punishment or reward after death act moral - and I believe that such factor is in fact the underlying reason for one's concern of one's reputation etc.

So what? Christians and other believers in the afterlife ALSO have reputations to worry about. How is this making A-Theists MORE moral? It makes them less and obviously so.

We humans are a social animal. One of the secrets behind our evolutionary success is co-operation, i.e. using our individual intelligence in combination with the intelligence of other human beings.

Actually the Dinosaurs were around far longer and had no such code. Your artificially imposed moral code does nothing to further evolution, unless you have EVIDENCE that it does – do you have such evidence, or are we to take your words on Faith alone?

How do Nuclear weapons increase our chance for survival (or anything else’s chance)?

I would argue that evolution has to a large extent sorted out humans with extreme anti-social behaviour.

Do you mean like the way professed A-Theists represent only a tiny part of the overall population? Are you claiming that nature is sorting you out so that you can be driven to extinction?

This is done even today - people who cannot resist acting immoral are banished from society.

Right … and when you die You are going to suffer the consequences for your immoral A-Theistic existence and be banished from “society”.

I would therefore further argue, that for the majority of human beings, evolution has bestowed unto us an intrinsic compassion for other human beings.

Ahhh, if only Wishful Thinking making things True you might have an actual argument here CW-Troll.

This explains why one gets a guilty conscience when one commits an immoral act.

Ohh, the old A-Theist magic rears its head. So you are using your magic mind powers to determine that all people who commit immoral acts have a guilty conscience about it? You certainly don’t seem to be very guilty about the constant lies you spread about this forum. Why should anyone believe your ridiculous claim?

You have presented no evidence for your magic mind powers, and without them you have no idea what people feel in their “conscience”. According to MANY A-Theist the “conscience” doesn’t even exist. In fact there are A-Theists on this VERY BOARD who have stated plainly that the consciousness itself is merely an “illusion”.

I think that this it is this instinctive will to act moral

Ohhh, so now it is INSTINCTIVE to act morally???

If that is the case, then why do we need police, courts, lawyers, and a penal system? Why do we need to force people to do what you claim is INSTINCTIVE?

Your line of reasoning is contradictory and makes no logical sense.

… in the best interest of the flock or tribe - that generally makes most people abstain from criminal behaviour.

In WHO’S best interest CWLoser?? Yours … or Mine?

Was Hitler doing what was in the best interest of the Jews? Is that what you are claiming? When the KKK lynched a black person, that was in the black person’s best interest according to you?

If we could only tap into those instincs and apply them to all of mankind instead of just the family, flock, tribe our country, I believe that the world would be a much better place.

And you claim that theists are naïve?

This is no logical argument CWL! For the love of the Goddess – have you EVER actually WON a court case?

Are you really a Lawyer CWL, or just a “legal secretary”? There IS a difference – you know?

 

[Guest]

radiating_sunflower:

So you are claiming that CARs are equal or superior in consciousness to a HUMAN then?

So you are claiming that CARs are equal or superior in consciousness to a HUMAN then?

Because unless you want to pretend that Your CAR (or TOAST) is superior to YOU, then you can’t pretend that there is no evidence for “God” and claim to be “logically consistent” at the same time.

Of course how “logically consistent” is someone who claims that their CAR is superior in consciousness to them?

Franko honeybunch put a civil tongue in your head when you address me sweetie in future please.

Simply sweetie the car drives itself, I control where it goes,I control its velocity and I contol where it stops.

Darling Frankie, A car is not consious, car does not think therefore it is not.

God well all that depends on which god we are discussing. You yourself say goddess, which goddess do you worship to?.
So do you then deny gods exsistence?

Define superior?

When you drive your car radiating-sunflower, do you control the car, or does the car control you?

Frankokins, Dont you know? Bless yur little cotton socks,

Let Aunty r_s tell you now sit down on the nice comfywomfy chair, dont spill your milk and cookies and listen to Aunty careflly withut interruptions.

Once upon a time in a far far away land a man created a car. He said to his wife " You know dearest what puzzles me is do I control the car or does it control me?" His wife looked on sympathetically and replied" Darling, you work in harmony, neither one is in control, for one needs the other to move or be moved, the car relys on you for fuel yourely on it s fuel to move,." The man nodded and gave his wise wife a kiss on the cheek and they and the car lived in harmony the rest of there lives. Then end.

 

[Franko]

Franko honeybunch put a civil tongue in your head when you address me sweetie in future please.

Not even pretending to be a heterosexual any more De-Bungler?

Simply sweetie the car drives itself

THE CAR DRIVES ITSELF?

Do all A-Theists believe this, or just the fanatics like yourself Titanpout, CWL, Trixy, Fool, etc.?

I control where it goes …

Kind of like TLOP controls where YOU go?

I control its velocity and I contol where it stops.

Kind of like TLOP controls YOUR velocity, and where YOU stop?

Darling Frankie, A car is not consious, car does not think therefore it is not.

Yeah … but TLOP said the same thing about YOU.

God well all that depends on which god we are discussing.

There is more than One? … ohhh do go on …

You yourself say goddess, which goddess do you worship to?

You know, De-Bungler I have a LOT of trouble telling you and UCE, and the Fool apart. In all honesty you could be the same entity and it wouldn’t make a bit of difference from my POV.

So do you then deny gods exsistence?

hehehe … you expect anyone here to take you serious De-Bungler/Fool/UCE?
You yourself say goddess, which goddess do you worship to?

Since you obviously don’t want to be a Skeptic, and since you obviously aren’t really interesting in Religion or Philosophy why don’t you run along and join the other religious fanatics of your cult? www.infidels.org

 

[Guest]

Franko I have to hand it to you, a big XXXXXX I have never laughed so much in my life bar pillory’s one-sentence lines, but you surpass ed yourself.

Yes I am heterosexual, no I am FEMALE and no way am I de_bunk, and I think de_bunk would be glad of that.

I may share the same island as him but that is as far as him and me go

Oh no it got funnier, De-Bungler/Fool/UCE as far as I am aware they are men I am not.

Sweetheart I am just me, I don’t need to be anybody else, if I feel the calling a I’ll let you in on a little secret, I will tell you upfront because that’s the kind of woman I am.

Franko honeybumpf, are you going to act like an intelligent person that I thought you were or are you going to keep floundering around like the proverbial cod?

You see I lost any sense of respect for you when you resorted to throwing your rattle out of the pram. You should know yourself I said quite clearly that I would continue to speak with you and anyone until they act like a spoilt brat and ruin any chance of a sane mature conversation, that was against what I was told and by doing so giving you the benefit of the doubt I also got ignored by those who are narrow and shallow minded not to respect my right to talk with whom I want and when I want.

Now if you can revert to being the person I believe you are, all that happier this will be and normality will prevail.

If you continue to act in a manner to gain attention the wrong attention then like a child having a temper tantrum I will treat you accordingly by ignoring you and asking everyone else to do so, no attention you should be given. Now you don’t want that do you?

Now can we behave polite and civilised?

 

[Guest]

Franko Cult no I like to think for myself and not be brainwashed and bullied thank you.
I would say I had free will to do as I please but within thewritten laws and unwritten laws we all dutifully follow I don't have so much of that liberty.

 

[Franko]

Yeah ... w h a t e v e r!

DO you have any evidence for this "free will" you speak of? I hear all the A-Theists claiming it is real, but obviously it is even more invisible then the Christain God.

I thought A-Theists only believed in things they had evidence for?

Atoms obey the laws of physics.
You are made of Atoms.
You obey the laws of Physics.

 

[Guest]

Yeah ... w h a t e v e r!

DO you have any evidence for this "free will" you speak of? I hear all the A-Theists claiming it is real, but obviously it is even more invisible then the Christain God.

I thought A-Theists only believed in things they had evidence for?

Atoms obey the laws of physics.
You are made of Atoms.
You obey the laws of Physics.

I am not an atheist now are you going to act in a civilised and calm manner to enable a resonable mature discussion or not.

I would like an apology for your uncalled behaviour towards me if you would be so kind and mature to do so.

 

[CWL]

CryingWhineyLawyer,

Well, since you seem unable or unwilling to actually explain ANY of the whacky nonsense YOU believe that doesn’t surprise me one bit, CWL.

You are quoting my explanation in the very post I am replying to now.

Ohh, I can explain the things I believe CWL, it is YOU who cannot and will not.

Predictable behavior from your typical hypocritical A-Theist Religious fanatic …

If you can explain why don't you? The floor is yours. Go ahead. There is a whole thread dedicated to the subject, just for you: Quantum Gravity

… By putting me on your IGNORE list and then dedicating all of your posts to me?

I admit that I check in on your posts now and then when I feel like a giggle.

Why do I get the feeling that even Fool, MRC, and Trixy are having problems swallowing that load of A-Theist “logic”???

Is it "A-Theist logic" that you are on my ignore list? That's a fact Franko, not logic. You never could tell the difference could you?

If you really think you are Fooling ANYONE then you are even more deluded than I thought. But after all these weeks, it is truly hysterical watching you completely implode like this, for all to see.

I am indeed not fooling anyone. At least you got that right.

Yes … one wonders why a religious fanatic and Troll such as yourself even bothered coming to the Religion & Philosophy section of a SKEPTICS forum in the first place. Obviously you NEVER had any intention of explaining What you believe, and Why you believe it. You are only here to spread your hypocrisy, hate, and cynicism.

If I am a "religious fanatic" like you claim, what better place for me to be than on in the Religion & Philosophy Section? As to being a skeptic - no by your definition (never admitting any mistake) I certainly am not. According to a normal dictionary (an "A-Lexicon" as you might call it), then yes Franko I consider myself a skeptic.

So what? Christians and other believers in the afterlife ALSO have reputations to worry about. How is this making A-Theists MORE moral? It makes them less and obviously so.

No it doesn't. The same factors obviously make christians and atheists alike (=humans, you know) act moral.

Actually the Dinosaurs were around far longer and had no such code. Your artificially imposed moral code does nothing to further evolution, unless you have EVIDENCE that it does – do you have such evidence, or are we to take your words on Faith alone?

What I said was that one of the secrets of human success is using our individual intelligence in combination with the intelligence of other human beings. Um... are you implying that Dinosaurs were intelligent in the human sense of the word? Isn't that rather... corny of you?

How do Nuclear weapons increase our chance for survival (or anything else’s chance)?

Our problem is that we tend to apply our intrinsic compassion towards other human beings only on the family, group or country (like I pointed out - DOH!). Nuclear weapons is clearly a result of other instincts related to the protection of the family, group or "tribe" if you will. These insticts may indeed be dangerous and we need to be aware of them and surpress them if we want to survive as a global species.

You are in fact making the mistake of tapping into such destructive insticts as we speak. "It's the theists against the athiests". "Tribe against tribe". In the words of your friend Jedi Knight - neolithic thinking.

Do you mean like the way professed A-Theists represent only a tiny part of the overall population? Are you claiming that nature is sorting you out so that you can be driven to extinction?

Do you mean like the way znabotic Q-Tips represent only a quidatic part of the overall znoop?

That's as much sense as the above makes. Your paranoia is showing again Franko. There is no such thing as an atheist conspiracy. Seek help man.

Right … and when you die You are going to suffer the consequences for your immoral A-Theistic existence and be banished from “society”.

Who says? You? Einstein was no believer in reward or punishment after death. Yet you claim that he made it into Heaven. Why not me? Who made you the Divine Sorting Hat anyway?

Ahhh, if only Wishful Thinking making things True you might have an actual argument here CW-Troll.

No, it's evident. Don't you feel ashamed when you've done something wrong? Is it more likely that that is due to:

a) social behaviour inherited through the evolutionary process; or
b) a divine being pointing its finger at you?

Ohh, the old A-Theist magic rears its head. So you are using your magic mind powers to determine that all people who commit immoral acts have a guilty conscience about it? You certainly don’t seem to be very guilty about the constant lies you spread about this forum. Why should anyone believe your ridiculous claim?

Not all people. Most people. There is of course the occasional sociapath, but they are in fact rather unusual. From your answers I can (through my "A-Theist magic) conclude that:

a) you have studied no Psycology and/or Sociology;
b) you have studied little or no Humanities; and
c) you have no or very limited contact with other human beings.

Again, due to c) I would advise you to seek help.

You have presented no evidence for your magic mind powers, and without them you have no idea what people feel in their “conscience”.

Just because you have no conscience and feel the need to fear punishment does not mean that normal people do not have it.

Actually, in your case I am glad you believe in punishment after death Franko. A-God knows what you would do otherwise.

According to MANY A-Theist the “conscience” doesn’t even exist. In fact there are A-Theists on this VERY BOARD who have stated plainly that the consciousness itself is merely an “illusion”.

1) Please provide evidence as to your assertion that "According to MANY A-Theist the "conscience" doesn’t even exist."

2) Do you seriously not know the difference between the term "conscience" and "consciousness"? Strange for someone who is bright enough to figure our how quantum gravity works...

Ohhh, so now it is INSTINCTIVE to act morally???

Yes sir. That I am contending. Glad you ask me about one of my assertions for a change instead of your own A-Theist straw-men.

Anyway, I thought you would appreciate the concept of intrinsic morality. Is that not what you are contending yourself?

If that is the case, then why do we need police, courts, lawyers, and a penal system? Why do we need to force people to do what you claim is INSTINCTIVE?

Alas, there are abnormal poeple who lack this compassion (sociopaths).

And, alas, the instincts I am talking about are by some only applied to a small group of people (this was all that was necessary in nature). They can be applied to larger groups (and in fact on all humanity) but that must be a conscious choice.

And yes Franko, even for us Secular Humanists there is such a thinng as "temptation" which must be resisted for the common good, or for a long term "maximum perceived benefit" as you might put it. If you think of our earlier discussions you may recall that I was (and am) in complete agreement as to your definition of a "moral act".

I wish you would expand on that thinking (which was very insightful and interesting) instead of campaining against an atheist constpiracy which does not exist.

Your line of reasoning is contradictory and makes no logical sense.

Perhaps you did not have the patience to consider my line of reasoning?

Anyway, read the "Humanist Moral Code" again, and try to do it without prejudice. There are some interesting posts there.

In WHO’S best interest CWLoser?? Yours … or Mine?

Ultimately, BOTH our interests. If we share, we run less risk of totally screwed in the end. Rather simple no?

Was Hitler doing what was in the best interest of the Jews? Is that what you are claiming? When the KKK lynched a black person, that was in the black person’s best interest according to you?

No, on the contrary. In exterminating jews and lynching black people humanity as such is being hurt. Not only do I hurt and outraged on behalf of the invididuals that have been (and are) lost through such atrocities when I tap in to my intrinsic compassion, but think also of what potential benefits to mankind (i.e. to you) that are lost when a human being dies. What was lost in the concentration camps? What has been lost through the strange fruit of Southern USA? The cure for AIDS? The cure for cancer?

And you claim that theists are naïve?

No I don't. Some are and some aren't. Just like atheists.

This is no logical argument CWL! For the love of the Goddess – have you EVER actually WON a court case?

Yes I have, but that has no relevance whatsoever to this discussion.

BTW. Hint: The last statement regarding ("a better world") was indeed not an argument, nor was it intended to be one. The first step in argument analysis is indeed learning to recognize arguments. Well done.

Are you really a Lawyer CWL, or just a “legal secretary”? There IS a difference – you know?

I am a fully qualified Swedish attorney with an LL.M. and university studies in Humanities in my baggage. Not that it matters. Try reading the arguments instead of concentrating on the person.

 

[Franko]

I am not an atheist

Sure if you say so, however, I hope you won’t mind too much if I maintain my own opinion.

… now are you going to act in a civilised and calm manner to enable a resonable mature discussion or not.

Look who’s talking!

Do I even know you?

I would like an apology for your uncalled behaviour towards me

What uncalled for behavior are you referring to specifically?

if you would be so kind and mature to do so.

Kind and mature are relative terms. Do you consider Titanpout, De-Bungler, Fool, CWL, MRC, Trixy, Aardvark, Evildave, etc, etc, kind and mature?

I have the feeling our definitions of those terms may not be the same?

So what are you doing in R&P anyway?

You certainly don’t seem interested in discussing or explaining your metaphysical beliefs … ?

If you were you would be providing me with the evidence for your magic “free will” powers right about now.

But I didn’t expect someone like you to actually concede that you don’t have any evidence for the things you believe.

 

[Guest]

Franko I am talking about me and you I am not talking about the others or including them. I am sure they can sort themselves out withyou if they so wish as so can you.

Now, can I have an applogy for your sudden turn of agressive behaviour towards me and move on to act in more productive civilised manner or not?


Do you know me, I doubt that providing the information under you avatar is correct, do you wish to know me then, that is fine by me and I will return the compliment.

Regarding your shallow opinon you have that right, however there is a but, to gain an opinon you must know all there is to make it, you do not.

You do not know me or what my beliefs or othewise are, you are making not a fair opinon but a prebiased judgement based on what the others do or did.

I am calm and civilised and have been towards you all along until you chose to group me with the others and be blinded by your own rage towards them Franko, do not tar me with the same brush you tar yourself with or others with. Should yu contine being agressive and unnecessary then I will publically ask for all to ignore you and hope that they see I am being just and concerend for your behaviour by asking of such, I do not wish to do this and hope you can see reason and we can move onto a far more stable postings.

I have not knocked your beliefs I have an opnion of you based on your recent behaviour towards me, which is a fair assement at this time.

now can we move on and canI get the apology for your irratinal behaviour.

To judge one person by the actions of a group is unjust and immature.