Mussy,
Fine one person here who has ever seen me type the words, "I believe in free will". You can't - because it hasn't happened.
I could FIND no Fine person who claimed you didn’t believe in “free will”. In fact, I think you are lying and you do believe you have magic powers. You are just too embarassed to admit it any longer. You A-Theists are sooo pathetic ...
I have, however, stated repeatedly some of the following: "I think the concept of free will is meaningless", and numerous times, "Frannie, I don't believe in your free will".
What are you talking about? I don’t believe in “free will” Mussy -- but you knew that …
Right now you have an opportunity to make someone else look like a moron for a change - all you have to do is show where I have ever claimed this. Go ahead, search away, you won't find a single time I have said that.
Ohh please Mussy. Everyone knows that the reason you are so obsessed with me is that because I have wiped the floor of the R&P up with your worthless ass more times than can be counted.
Allow me to do it again …
The universe may, in fact, be deterministic - I don't know. Our current understanding of science suggests it isn't - but perhaps we are missing something.
Our current understanding of Sigh-ence suggests that things are not determinable?
How can you even conduct Sigh-ence if you can’t determine anything Mussy?
Do you just randomly select words from a dictionary when you make posts? You should try stringing them together into coherent sentences that actually reflect the way things work in reality.
I'm willing to admit that if someone had access to the PLOP (thanks Trixy), then perhaps it would be obviously deterministic.
I guess Trixy making a PLOP on you would be a predictable outcome, now that you mention it …
We don't have it, so I don't know.
So what you are claiming is that because you don’t KNOW what the complete Laws of Physics are then obviously we can (should) conclude that they don’t really exist, and instead things happen magically and supernaturally.
That is great for you A-Theists with your magical supernatural belief system, but most people don’t believe in magic Mussy. Most people are looking for a logical explanation of how things work. Especially people who are Skeptics.
You believe that all of your actions are controlled by TLOP and have been preordained since the moment of the “Big Bang” – is this correct?
Just a simple Yes or No will do.
Franko:
How much wiggle room was there in the great FLAT-EARTH vs. ROUND-EARTH debate? It is either One or the other – not “Sorta Both”!
Mussy:
It is either your definition of free will, or fatalism? Says who? You?
I thought You said you didn’t believe in “free will”? Is this another example of you honestly stating your beliefs Mussy (A-Theist)?
Do YOU control your actions Mussy, or does TLOP (ultimately). It is a simple question, why are you so terrified of answering it? Why all the lies and obfuscation? Why can’t you A-Theists ever just state what you believe, and why you believe it?
You think this makes you and the A-Theists look like you know what you are talking about? It makes you look like an idiot religious fanatic desperately trying to defend his absurd dogmatic claims by any illogical means possible.
I read me some books, and them books seem to give a whole bunch more possibilities.
You read some books!?!? Hehehe … well good for you Wussy.
… And these possibilities are?
Why mention the “books”, but not the other possibilities? So you don’t believe in “free will” Mussy? What do you believe exactly? Should we try and read your mind, or are you going to tell us? Perhaps I should just ask Stimpson, or Trixy, or De-Bungler what you believe. It is pretty obvious that they are all much smarter than you are.
Seriously Fran, you can't think you're the only person to examine the issue, right?
No.
What about all of the other great minds that have examined it, and don't agree with your either-or dilemma?
yeah … and now here you are … an A-Theist.
So what are you saying Mussy, the issue has already been decided by the great minds of the past and there is nothing new to be said or discovered? What are you doing in this forum then.
Did you some here simply to demonstrate how much smarter you were then stupid theist with their “crazy” beliefs in “invisible gods”? Did you come here just so you could pat guys like TP and De-bungler on the back about how much more “superior” you are with your magic “free will” powers, and no consequences for your actions?
I believe the laws of physics (PLOP, not TLOP) are not conscious.
I believe consciousness stems from our brains, thus I don't believe the laws of physics are conscious.
Yeah, but where did your brain stem from? Didn’t Tlop make your brain? And if TLOP made your brain, then how can TLOP be less complex and conscious than its creation?
How can a non-conscious force control a conscious one?
Besides I thought you said you don’t believe in “free will”? That means YOU aren’t doing squat – TLOP is doing everything, you are just watching. How does just watching make you
more conscious then the thing doing the doing?
TLOP moves you, and it needs to perceive you to move you. You on the other hand ONLY perceive. You don’t do any of the actual moving yourself. So how can the thing that merely perceives be greater than the thing which perceives and moves (acts)?
That doesn’t make any sense.
TLOP makes/controls YOU makes/controls CAR
What you are claiming Wussy, is that YOU are superior (more conscious) to both CAR and TLOP, but clearly that doesn’t make any sense. For you to claim that you are more conscious then TLOP is as absurd as claiming that your CAR is more conscious then YOU.
What have you to say about this obvious contradiction in your beliefs?
(anticipating from your previous responses): Begging the question? No, proceding from the only information I have. I don't have any information that consciousness comes from anywhere else, if I see any evidence I'll consider it. Do you have any to show me?
TLOP controls YOU controls CAR
Don’t lie and say you don’t have this information Mussy. You simply choose to ignore it because you are insane – you Fear God and the idea of Fate. But don’t say that you don’t have ANY evidence for God. You have the evidence You just don’t want it to be True.
TLOP controls YOU in exactly the same way that you control your CAR. Perhaps your CAR is out in the parking lot this very instant telling the other nearby CARs how there is no evidence for MUSSY, and that the CAR has “free will” and controls its own Destiny. There is no evidence for the “invisible supernatural omnipotent
Driver”, that is only a fairy tale that naïve stupid Theist CARs believe.
Franko:
Explain your line of reasoning for concluding that TLOP is a non-conscious magical wonder-force?
Mussy:
See above.
“See Above”? Are you making a reference to God Mussy, or just praying for guidance, because I didn’t see you present ANY evidence that TLOP is a non-conscious magical mystery force like you claim.
Just explain how a non-conscious force controls a conscious one, and please provide an example of a time when a rock, or chair, or charcoal briquette controlled your actions.
Are Dogs inferior or superior to You Mussy? Do you tend to control your pet dog, or does your pet dog tend to control you? Who tells who what they get to eat more often? Who tells who when they are allowed to go to the bathroom ?
So if I am seriously ill, but fated to get better, then it doesn't matter if I seek medical attention?
You mean kind of like if you are Fated to win the lottery you don’t have to actually buy a ticket?
. 
