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psi wheel experiment

Weak Kitten said:
If it doesn't have enough force to stop motion it surely doesn't have enough to reverse the rotation of the wheel.
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If the psi-wheel stopped on its own, then the force required to reverse the rotation of the psi-wheel would be the same as the one in the opposite direction (c)
 
wardenclyffe said:
Are Musibrique and Exodus the same person? If so, the mods should straighten that out before we get too far. If Exodus just forgot the password or something, it should be an easy fix.

Ward
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I don't know how you came up with this, but I can assure you I am not Exodus. I'm actually a brand new JREF member for your information...
 
Sorry, it seemed like you were continuing the conversation that Exodus started once Exodus disappeared.

Ward
 
Musibrique said:
1) What an excellent advise Mr. Scott :)!

2) The light/temperature changes can in no way affect the psi-wheel. I conducted experiments where I exposed the psi-wheels under bright, artificial light conditions and none made a single movement. In addition, I left a psi-wheel in a room for 24 hours and it didn't move either.3) What if the coin is biased? Wouldn't a biased coin invalidate the data?

4) How exactly do you calculate "better than chance" with psi-wheels? As a novice statistician, I cannot understand this concept.
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I am curious as to how you know the highlighted portion?
 
Garrette said:
I am curious as to how you know the highlighted portion?
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The psi-wheel was held in my apartment on a wooden table from about 11 pm-11pm in the next day (nobody was in my apartment during that time) I also remember its position and I'm quite certain it did not move.
 
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It sounds like, at best, you are certain that it ended up back in the same position that it started at, not that it didn't move.
 
Musibrique said:
1) What an excellent advise Mr. Scott :)!

2) The light/temperature changes can in no way affect the psi-wheel. I conducted experiments where I exposed the psi-wheels under bright, artificial light conditions and none made a single movement. In addition, I left a psi-wheel in a room for 24 hours and it didn't move either.

3) What if the coin is biased? Wouldn't a biased coin invalidate the data?

4) How exactly do you calculate "better than chance" with psi-wheels? As a novice statistician, I cannot understand this concept.
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Now... it may be just me, but I have a few queries:

a) 'can' in no way affect? I think you mean 'under my testing it did not'. What angle did you light it? See again the radiometer...

b) We live in an age where we can put a webcam with motion detection on a subject for free... why didn't you do that? Or better yet, put a livestream on, lots of sites like ustream... have a television program running in the background so interested people can watch it for you...

Also, did you verify that without any effort it *did* move first?

As the basic rule is; you need to be able to do something that is not probable; so if it almost did not move without you trying....

c) You know it doesn't count if you glue/stick the weel to it's axle, right? ;)
 
Musibrique said:
The psi-wheel was held in my apartment on a wooden table from about 11 pm-11pm in the next day (nobody was in my apartment during that time) I also remember its position and I'm quite certain it did not move.
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Ah. So you don't actually know. Got it.

This is precisely the sort of shoddy experimenting that leads to precisely this sort of shaky conclusion (that psi wheels are at all related to psi or the paranormal in any fashion).
 
I don't see the point in moving a paper wheel with your mind. Now, if you could lie on the couch and do the housework by telekinesis that would be useful.
 
True story from today!!!!!!

I teach theory of knowledge for IB (science and maths as well)

Read this thread a few days ago so decided to track down Gardner's book to make one for a module on Scientific Method. Hoping to wow the kids with my PSI POWER then bring it back to get them to look for evidence and hopefully steer the lesson towards the idea you have to look everywhere for the evidence before jumping on a pseudo science belief. Also to look at ways to isolate the variables until they can get to the idea that a seemingly magical thing actually has a very mundane explanation. Should be a nice lesson.

However full day of lessons so been busy. Got my lab tech to build one for me and the bugger just would not turn, even with a Bunsen heating it.

Is this an example of my psi power stopping it turning or was it my lab tech building the bloody thing about 45cm high!!!!

Freaks me out the way everyone has to explain scientific method to all the woowooers. My kids all get the idea of blind testing, controls etc and they are 16. I also do the zenner cards trick where you can magically (hmmmm) draw what they just drew. A lot of the kids pick up the trick and suggest ways of changing the experiment to rule it out. (hint soft marker)
 
realpaladin said:
Now... it may be just me, but I have a few queries:

a) 'can' in no way affect? I think you mean 'under my testing it did not'. What angle did you light it? See again the radiometer...

b) We live in an age where we can put a webcam with motion detection on a subject for free... why didn't you do that? Or better yet, put a livestream on, lots of sites like ustream... have a television program running in the background so interested people can watch it for you...

Also, did you verify that without any effort it *did* move first?

As the basic rule is; you need to be able to do something that is not probable; so if it almost did not move without you trying....

c) You know it doesn't count if you glue/stick the weel to it's axle, right? ;)
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a) I generalized based on my psi-wheel=crooke's radiometer experiments that artificial light (regardless how dim/bright it is) cannot cause the psi-wheel to spin like a radiometer. Besides, there is no evidence that a psi-wheel works like a radiometer.

Does it really matter which angle I light the wheel? Well, all I can tell you is the light was quite close to the wheel.

b) Simple, I don't have a webcam and for the latter, I did verify it: no movement at all.

c) Right ;)
 
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Musibrique said:
a) I generalized based on my psi-wheel=crooke's radiometer experiments that artificial light (regardless how dim/bright it is) cannot cause the psi-wheel to spin like a radiometer. Besides, there is no evidence that a psi-wheel works like a radiometer.
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But lots of evidence that it works by air currents and convection.
 
Garrette said:
Ah. So you don't actually know. Got it.

This is precisely the sort of shoddy experimenting that leads to precisely this sort of shaky conclusion (that psi wheels are at all related to psi or the paranormal in any fashion).
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Why are you putting words in my mouth which I never said? I never claim my experiments support the conclusion that psi-wheels are due to psi or the paranormal. All I was trying to do in my experiments is test the psi-wheel=radiometer assumption.
 
Musibrique said:
Why are you putting words in my mouth which I never said? I never claim my experiments support the conclusion that psi-wheels are due to psi or the paranormal. All I was trying to do in my experiments is test the psi-wheel=radiometer assumption.
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I reached that conclusion (about your position) based on both the post I quote and your post # 37.

If my conclusion is mistaken, then my apologies; I retract. I will point out, however, that you did not mention radiometrics until after my post.

Ah, well. Glad to be wrong on this one. Apologies again.
 
Musibrique said:
b) Simple, I don't have a webcam and for the latter, I did verify it: no movement at all.
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Let me be nice here and say that you meant that it *did* move freely and easily before the test. That was what I asked.

Now, let's say this all happened as you claim. What next?

Buy a webcam? Claim the MDC?

Thing is, we are talking about 'say so' here and all everyone can do here is help you out with ways to improve your testing.

But *your* testing does not mean anything (you may be biased and therefore every test will only confirm that).

So the next step would be to get a webcam (who doesn't have a webcam these days? They are cheap as chips and most laptops/tablets give you one whether you want or not. Also there is software so you can use your phone as a 'remote webcam') and repeat the test I guess.
 
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