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Penn & Teller's "BS" -- Yay or Nay?

Dinwar said:
People who think we're re-creating the Middle Ages as it was, to put it mildly, do not understand us. We are CREATING a society based on what the Middle Ages COULD HAVE and SHOULD HAVE BEEN. So attacking us for glossing over the bad parts of the Middle Ages is, really, tilting at windmills.
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When your stance is off one that has been openly mocked as stupid on an episode of Star Trek you might want to rethink your position.
 
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No offense intended but that sounds incredibly stupid.
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None taken. To each his own--I find football, basketball, etc. increadibly stupid. :D It makes us happy and keeps us out of troube (a somewhat major concern with some of us.....). Believe me, most of us fully acknowledge how stupid we sound to other people.

We just don't care. :)
 
Dinwar said:
Believe me, most of us fully acknowledge how stupid we sound to other people.
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I actually changed my post because I couldn't exactly remember where I heard that same exact argument lambasted before. Then I realized that it was an episode of Star Trek discussing how idiotic of a concept the holodecks are. I completely understand why Penn and Teller went after whatever you are defending.
Nope. Changed my mind.
 
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Yeah, I saw that after I'd posted.:o

Believe it or not, I also understand why P&T are coming after me. Like I said before, I just don't care. I'm having fun, and learning things, and making friends--if people want to point and laugh, why should I pay attention? *I* know why I do it, and that's all that really matters.

Or, to put it another way: If my father threatening to shoot me for wearing Period garb at the house hasn't deterred me (he was mostly joking....I think..... :D ), why should the fact that comedians are making fun of me? ;)

ETA: Perhaps a better way to think about it is vacationing. No one gets the full effect of any area they visit on a vacation. You can't--you simply cannot immers yourself into another culture over the week or two that are available to most people for vacations. Most of what they see is completely artificial (tourist traps, theme parks, and that sort of thing). People still go, though. And while my vacation is less about distance and more about culture, it's really not that different from what most people do when they visit Europe, or Florida, or the Grand Canyon, or anyplace else.
 
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technoextreme said:
I have a feeling that they realized how insane they came off and they are trying anything to backpedal on the video. Dr. Jay Gordon is claiming the same thing and his what is said on video isn't that different from his known stance.
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Of course, what Jay Gordon is shown saying is not any different than what he actually has posted on his own website right now, so to claim that it is misrepresenting him is nonsense.
 
The first few shows of Season 1 were excellent, but it seems that in the hunt for topics not yet covered, the show's quality has steadily dropped over the years. There were a few shows that I even thought were ignorant and reckless, like the segments about "second-hand" smoking and global warming, in which they basically brushed aside much scientific evidence and instead pushed their own viewpoint.

While they are often debunking demonstrably crazy ideas and outright scams, such as 'psychic' fortune telling and the like, but in some cases they are pushing an agenda of similarly crazy theories as well as personal and political bias.

I think the series has probably outlived its usefulness. Maybe they should end it as a weekly series, and only do an occasional show when they have a subject worthy enough of being called "Bµllshit" - and there certainly are a few left.

I'm still waiting for their show on the Scientology cult, which has been conspicuously absent - as with all US media. In the last few years there have been many hard-hitting documentaries about Scientology made and broadcast in countries such as Britain, Germany, France, and Australia - yet not a single American TV show on the subject. Scientology is probably the single biggest "Bµllshit" scam operation in the country, and I can't think of anything more worthy of a "Bµllshit" episode. Yet Penn and Teller refuse to utter an unkind word about it, obviously fearful of the cult's army of litigation attorneys and private investigators.
 
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thaiboxerken said:
Newest episode takes on the anti-vaxxers.
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And this is an example of why we need Penn & Teller. Frontline did a thoughtful, insightful, calm, researched piece on this topic that was excellent.

But Penn & Teller did a !@#$%^*& piece with much more impact.

Variety -- it's the %$+#* spice of life!
 
Jono said:
You didn't realise you learned information about the subject beforehand?
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Actually no. Not at the time. I really thought I was getting "psychic impressions". I mean, I knew the people that I was doing the readings for. I just never made the association until that episode of BS that I was just taking what I knew about them and their lives and extrapolating data to the most likely possibility.

And to the person who said "I think she meant cold readings", a cold reading is when you go in knowing nothing about the person. A hot reading is when you know them or have prior information about them.
 
Sherman Bay said:
And this is an example of why we need Penn & Teller. Frontline did a thoughtful, insightful, calm, researched piece on this topic that was excellent.

But Penn & Teller did a !@#$%^*& piece with much more impact.
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Uh, no. You posted this only four days after it aired; I'd like to see where you saw evidence of this "impact". I haven't heard of whisper of the episode outside of this thread.
 
chainlink said:
I'm still waiting for their show on the Scientology cult
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According to wiki, Penn said he tried pitching it multiple times but showtime refused. He then gave the idea for the guys at southpark who did their episode and Penn said after that he doesn't have much to say on the matter.

FledgelingSkeptic said:
And to the person who said "I think she meant cold readings", a cold reading is when you go in knowing nothing about the person. A hot reading is when you know them or have prior information about them.
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Yes, I'm aware of that. I thought that's what you ment. Apperantly not.
 
Does anyone follow Penn Point? Check out this recent one where he makes a couple interesting claims: http://revision3.com/pennpoint/liberalmagician

One is that liberalism is rooted in thinking you know the answers to everything. That's arguable, but I'm more interested in his followup claim which is that Libertarianism, contrary to liberalism, is rooted in saying "I Don't Know" in regards to "complicated" issues like health-care... so government should do as little as possible and things will just workout... somehow.

I knew he was a Libertarian nut, but that is idiotic. I used to think he was just an ideologue, but now I think he just dumb.

In the ten or more years I've been reading the arguments of Libertarians online, and in others mediums, I have never once seen a Libertarian say "I Don't Know" about anything.

In fairness, people that strongly hold political opinions of any stripe tend to think they have all the answers. But people that hold extremely ideological political opinions that fall outside of "mainstream" politics tend to be particularly prone to 'know-it-all-ness'. I've never once seen a Libertarian, Marxist, or Anarchist ever admit that they didn't have all the answers.

This is what I can't stand about the Libertarians in the skeptical movement. They try to make it seem like Libertarianism is the "skeptical" and more rational political position.

Well I call Bulls Hit!
 
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I enjoy BS. Sure it can be hit and miss but most shows are. Another show I enjoyed more and wish was a more frequently done show was Assume The Position with Mr. Wuhl.
 
I'd say I agree with about 2/3 of the episodes these guys have done. When the show first started I was a loony libertarian high school kid, so I was a lot more into it then. Now I kind of cringe when I see things like a CATO statistician "disproving" global warming or some of their other poorly though out arguments, but I think Penn Jillette is an awesome guy, and I can overlook some of the political stuff and still enjoy the show.

Plus, when they're doing a topic that they really know a lot about, they SLAM DUNK it. The psychics one was the first one I ever saw, and it is fantastic. The hits make the misses worthwhile.
 
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