Penn and Teller on the BBC

[anglolawyer]

OK, I am a rare visitor to this part of the forum what with not knowing nothing about magic but I just saw this and I want to see if my guess of how it's done is right (assuming anyone is allowed to tell me)

A guy picks (and signs) a card as Penn (or Teller) is fripping the deck by saying 'stop' and the card is then supposed to reappear inside one of half a dozen muffins laid out on the table but, although each one has a card, none of them is it. Then Teller (or Penn) regurgitates the signed card. Magic!

So, I'm thinking the little guy has learned how to force a card by pretending to stop at the point when he's told to stop but in fact he can cut the deck at the card he is forcing (how the heck he does that I have no clue) which is returned to the middle of the deck but somehow its place is noted and then while everyone is focused on the muffins he ingests the card.

I think he does need to do the force because the card must not be the same as any of the ones in the muffins (odds about 7/52 that it will be) as that would spoil the trick a bit.

Amirite?

Also, is this considered a good trick by the experts here?

 

[Garrette]

A force is one way to handle the issue you describe, but it is not necessary; it can be done with an entirely free choice, and there are at least two ways to handle that besides forcing; I don't know if they forced or not, but if they did, I know where I would wager it happened and what method was used.

You didn't speculate on the actual magical bit of getting the signed card into the mouth. He was not quite as quick as Hermes, and the camera timing was perhaps a bit unfortunate, but still well done.

Regarding whether it is a good trick: It's not the trick, it's the presentation. Did you find it entertaining? Then it was a good trick. I've seen P&T do much better, but they were fine in this, particular given the setting and format. The point wasn't really to amaze with the trick but rather to entertain a docile morning audience, yes? So it served its purpose. "Good" isn't defined by difficulty of method.

 

[anglolawyer]

A force is one way to handle the issue you describe, but it is not necessary; it can be done with an entirely free choice, and there are at least two ways to handle that besides forcing; I don't know if they forced or not, but if they did, I know where I would wager it happened and what method was used.

You didn't speculate on the actual magical bit of getting the signed card into the mouth. He was not quite as quick as Hermes, and the camera timing was perhaps a bit unfortunate, but still well done.

Regarding whether it is a good trick: It's not the trick, it's the presentation. Did you find it entertaining? Then it was a good trick. I've seen P&T do much better, but they were fine in this, particular given the setting and format. The point wasn't really to amaze with the trick but rather to entertain a docile morning audience, yes? So it served its purpose. "Good" isn't defined by difficulty of method.

Yes, I did find it entertaining. I generally like card tricks and Penn and Teller also. It would have been great if they really had dug the signed card out of a randomly selected muffin.

 

[Garrette]

Not exactly a signed card in a randomly selected muffin, but just as impressive. Watch the whole thing as the first one (with the incredible Bill Malone) doesn't show the set up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP0JxX7LRQQ

 

[anglolawyer]

Not exactly a signed card in a randomly selected muffin, but just as impressive. Watch the whole thing as the first one (with the incredible Bill Malone) doesn't show the set up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP0JxX7LRQQ

Hah! Cool.

 

[Bob Klase]

The best way to be sure the card selected is not one of the cards in the muffins is to just remove those 7 cards from the deck.

 

[anglolawyer]

The best way to be sure the card selected is not one of the cards in the muffins is to just remove those 7 cards from the deck.

I only thought of that later. Duh!

So the little guy does not have to force a particular card (although it looks to me as though he does) but he does have to locate it after the deck has been shuffled and returned to him by the dupe, punter or mark (or whatever you guys call it).

I wonder how he does that? I am thinking it must be a magic deck of cards with one card slightly bigger than the rest so he can take that one out without looking. That would require that he force that card but it looks to me like he does indeed do that. Otherwise, I demand to know how you retrieve a particular card from a shuffled deck without making too obvious a performance of looking through all the cards. I get it that the muffins are a great distraction from what he is doing but, watching him as far as the camera allowed, it did not seem to me that he actually looked at any of the cards, although you can certainly see some monkey business going on. Come on. Out with it! It's only magic so no clamming up!

 

[Garrette]

The best way to be sure the card selected is not one of the cards in the muffins is to just remove those 7 cards from the deck.

That was one of the methods I was thinking of.

 

[Garrette]

I only thought of that later. Duh!

So the little guy does not have to force a particular card (although it looks to me as though he does) but he does have to locate it after the deck has been shuffled and returned to him by the dupe, punter or mark (or whatever you guys call it).

I wonder how he does that? I am thinking it must be a magic deck of cards with one card slightly bigger than the rest so he can take that one out without looking. That would require that he force that card but it looks to me like he does indeed do that. Otherwise, I demand to know how you retrieve a particular card from a shuffled deck without making too obvious a performance of looking through all the cards. I get it that the muffins are a great distraction from what he is doing but, watching him as far as the camera allowed, it did not seem to me that he actually looked at any of the cards, although you can certainly see some monkey business going on. Come on. Out with it! It's only magic so no clamming up!

There are multiple ways to retrieve the card that is apparently lost in the shuffled deck, and I am not certain which one he uses (I can narrow it down to the three most likely), but I would wager a year's salary it is not at all related to a special deck or any odd-sized cards.

 

[anglolawyer]

You are seriously not going to tell me, are you? Rats!

 

[Garrette]

You are seriously not going to tell me, are you? Rats!

No, but in today's age if you cannot fairly easily find a dozen different ways to control a card then you need to have a teenager do it for you.

The only somewhat difficult part of this trick, and the one I don't have to say I'm guessing on how it was done, is getting the controlled card folded so it can go into the mouth. It's one of the few real sleights I learned long ago. I still technically know how to do it, but I am so out of practice I wouldn't dare. I gave a once-removed hint in my first post.

 

[anglolawyer]

No, but in today's age if you cannot fairly easily find a dozen different ways to control a card then you need to have a teenager do it for you.

The only somewhat difficult part of this trick, and the one I don't have to say I'm guessing on how it was done, is getting the controlled card folded so it can go into the mouth. It's one of the few real sleights I learned long ago. I still technically know how to do it, but I am so out of practice I wouldn't dare. I gave a once-removed hint in my first post.

Jeez you guys are tough. But OK - I actually didn't really think about that part. I just assumed he squished the card up in one hand and stuck it in his mouth (you see how hand go up while everybody is tearing up muffins).

 

[marplots]

I don't like the particular fold used because the card ended up folded face-out. I think the reveal would have been stronger if it had been face in.

Honestly though, this routine was drop dead easy - which is exactly what I'd want if I were going on network television. Less complicated = less chance of an "oops."

 

[Garrette]

I don't like the particular fold used because the card ended up folded face-out. I think the reveal would have been stronger if it had been face in.

Honestly though, this routine was drop dead easy - which is exactly what I'd want if I were going on network television. Less complicated = less chance of an "oops."

Agreed, except for the fold part. Drop dead easy when you do it frequently, perhaps, but not when you're a non-practicing hobbyist like me.

 

[Garrette]

Jeez you guys are tough. But OK - I actually didn't really think about that part. I just assumed he squished the card up in one hand and stuck it in his mouth (you see how hand go up while everybody is tearing up muffins).

Not really. Look at the card and see how it is actually folded, not squished. If they had had the camera focused on his hands the entire time, you would not have seen anything more relevant than you actually did see, yet it ended up folded. Not perfectly squared, perhaps, but still folded.

 

[Senex]

I don't like the particular fold used because the card ended up folded face-out. I think the reveal would have been stronger if it had been face in.

Honestly though, this routine was drop dead easy - which is exactly what I'd want if I were going on network television. Less complicated = less chance of an "oops."

Yes, unlike recorded shows you might see Blaine, Brown or Angel do on TV specials, an "almost live" morning show has to work 100% of the time, no retakes. No shame in excluding truly difficult sleights.

Teller is only "a little guy" in physical stature compared to Penn. He's a heavyweight in my thinking.

 

[Garrette]

I think Teller is a heavyweight in that regard in nearly everyone's thinking, especially if they know anything at all about magic. And that includes Penn; he knows just how good Teller is as thinker, artist, creator, and performer, and he knows how hard it is to be the silent partner. That's a much tougher job than it appears.

 

[anglolawyer]

I am still wondering how he found the signed four of hearts in the shuffled deck. We see him cut the cards when they are returned to him but I don't see how that would do it unless, as I said before, that card is a little bigger than the others, an idea I've squelched on instructions from here. As far as I can see he doesn't look at the faces of the cards. I guess he might arrange for the key card to be returned adjacent to a known card betting that the mug's imperfect shuffling will not separate them, but so what? He's no better off as now he has two cards he can't find! And we do actually see the four in the course of the shuffle maybe actually getting repositioned, I dunno. It can't be that chancy. There has to be a guaranteed way of getting that card out of the deck. OK, since you miserable so and sos won't tell me I'll have to ask my sixteen year old son.

To be continued.

ETA and I'm only kidding of course. I think you guys are cool.

 

[marplots]

How about a little smaller instead?

 

[Garrette]

Looking at the faces of the cards is entirely unnecessary.