Neo-Nazis growing clout in Greece

[Puppycow]

Greek police send crime victims to neo-Nazi 'protectors'

Greece's far-right Golden Dawn party is increasingly assuming the role of law enforcement officers on the streets of the bankrupt country, with mounting evidence that Athenians are being openly directed by police to seek help from the neo-Nazi group, analysts, activists and lawyers say.

In return, a growing number of Greek crime victims have come to see the party, whose symbol bears an uncanny resemblance to the swastika, as a "protector".

One victim of crime, an eloquent US-trained civil servant, told the Guardian of her family's shock at being referred to the party when her mother recently called the police following an incident involving Albanian immigrants in their downtown apartment block.

"They immediately said if it's an issue with immigrants go to Golden Dawn," said the 38-year-old, who fearing for her job and safety, spoke only on condition of anonymity. "We don't condone Golden Dawn but there is an acute social problem that has come with the breakdown of feeling of security among lower and middle class people in the urban centre," she told the Guardian. "If the police and official mechanism can't deliver and there is no recourse to justice, then you have to turn to other maverick solutions."
. . .
One survey last week showed a near doubling in the number of people voicing "positive opinions" about Golden Dawn, up from 12% in May to 22%. The popularity of Nikos Michaloliakos, the party's rabble-rousing leader had shot up by 8 points, much more than any other party leader.

The austerity program seems to be playing right into their hands. They are gaining popularity by, among other things, distributing food to the people. It's inexcusable for the police to be openly cooperating with them though, handing over police work to a vigilante group. It seems that the people are gravitating in either one of two directions: to the far right or to the far left. The old center parties have failed.

 

[Humes fork]

Am I the only one who feels that the enforced EU lurking federalism "ever deeper integration" is more likely to lead to a war rather than preventing war?

Europe is too culturally heterogenous to be a successful federation. Can Barroso and the rest please stop trying to drive us all off the cliff?

It's annoying enough when the French try to get quotas for European TV programs because they think we watch too many American programs and movies. None of your *********** business in the first place.

 

[Moss]

Am I the only one who feels that the enforced EU lurking federalism "ever deeper integration" is more likely to lead to a war rather than preventing war?

Europe is too culturally heterogenous to be a successful federation. Can Barroso and the rest please stop trying to drive us all off the cliff?

It's annoying enough when the French try to get quotas for European TV programs because they think we watch too many American programs and movies. None of your *********** business in the first place.

What has this to do with the OP if I may ask?

This constellation of official organs of the state endorsing paramilitary thugs reminds me a lot of the Weimar Republic. Including the necessary but harsh austerity measures.
Given what happened last time the EU might as well take notice. But I have a hard time coming up with a solution to an issue which is at its heart something about Greek interior politics and their attitude towards fascism.

 

[Puppycow]

What has this to do with the OP if I may ask?

I think he means that there is more tension and resentment between countries now that some countries can impose their rules on other countries from the outside, and creditor countries are forced to bail out debtor countries. The southern countries resent the northern countries for imposing austerity on them, and the northern countries resent the southern countries for not being able to pay their debts. If the countries were independent of each other, there would be less reason to resent each other.

 

[Toontown]

First, I learn the Greeks refuse to pay taxes but insist on retiring at 55. Then I'm told they have blasphemy laws and use nazis for cops because they're too cheap to pay for real cops.

They're like crazy people. That's all contradictory and inconsistent. How could people in their right minds possibly imagine that combination of behaviors leading to anything except collapse?

What could they possibly be thinking? I know they can't fight well enough to be nazis and take over Europe...



Perhaps the general plan was to milk the system for all it was worth, send people they dislike to jail for blasphemy, and then abandon the sinking ship with a sack full of ill-gotten euros.

Or something. Who the hell knows?

 

[baron]

First, I learn the Greeks refuse to pay taxes but insist on retiring at 55. Then I'm told they have blasphemy laws and use nazis for cops because they're too cheap to pay for real cops.

They're like crazy people. That's all contradictory and inconsistent. How could people in their right minds possibly imagine that combination of behaviors leading to anything except collapse?

What could they possibly be thinking? I know they can't fight well enough to be nazis and take over Europe...



Perhaps the general plan was to milk the system for all it was worth, send people they dislike to jail for blasphemy, and then abandon the sinking ship with a sack full of ill-gotten euros.

Or something. Who the hell knows?

I think you're misreading the Greek people there. They're certainly not these fascist crazies you make them out to be although they have always had a culture of being lazy beyond mortal understanding. The failure to pay taxes wasn't born out of criminality but from a history of abject apathy and incompetence of the bureaucrats. If you could just not pay your taxes and nobody bothered I bet you wouldn't cough up either. Now, catalysed by the Euro and the global recession and the dictatorship of the EU, their way of life has caught up with them and they don't know where to turn. It's sad to see because the Greece I know is the friendliest and most welcoming country you could imagine.

 

[Dcdrac]

I have lived and worked across Europe and it is not that heterogenuous at all that is a complete myth

 

[WildCat]

First, I learn the Greeks refuse to pay taxes but insist on retiring at 55. Then I'm told they have blasphemy laws and use nazis for cops because they're too cheap to pay for real cops.

They're like crazy people. That's all contradictory and inconsistent. How could people in their right minds possibly imagine that combination of behaviors leading to anything except collapse?

Those Med-types, they think with their hearts and their gut. The brain is more of a peripheral device to their thought process. Must be something in that Mediterranean Sea air.

 

[Flo]

Greek police send crime victims to neo-Nazi 'protectors'



The austerity program seems to be playing right into their hands. They are gaining popularity by, among other things, distributing food to the people. It's inexcusable for the police to be openly cooperating with them though, handing over police work to a vigilante group. It seems that the people are gravitating in either one of two directions: to the far right or to the far left. The old center parties have failed.

Sadly, we're seing the same process as in so many muslim countries (Tunisia, Egypt, Syria, ...): the state having failed to fulfill its role (i.e. spend whatever revenue it gets on protecting the population from crime, unemployment, etc.), various fanatics and mafia are filling the gap, until the time it can present itself as a legitimate contender for the next elections ...

 

[fuelair]

What has this to do with the OP if I may ask?

This constellation of official organs of the state endorsing paramilitary thugs reminds me a lot of the Weimar Republic. Including the necessary but harsh austerity measures.
Given what happened last time the EU might as well take notice. But I have a hard time coming up with a solution to an issue which is at its heart something about Greek interior politics and their attitude towards fascism.

Plus their postitive attitude towards wholesale tax evasion and cushy government jobs for life. Wound up biting their butts - so........they make it worse and blame everyone else. Cool!!

 

[Humes fork]

I have lived and worked across Europe and it is not that heterogenuous at all that is a complete myth

Sure, no different languages, cultures or anything like that! We are merely waiting to be feralized like the US.

 

[fuelair]

Sure, no different languages, cultures or anything like that! We are merely waiting to be feralized like the US.

We are all wild and wolflike?????? I hope you meant federalized especially since I make that kind of thing happen on my keyboard a lot......

 

[Ziggurat]

It seems that the people are gravitating in either one of two directions: to the far right or to the far left. The old center parties have failed.

I've seen variations on this quote attributed to Tom Wolfe as well, but this one I can source directly:

The strange thing is that it's always in Europe that dictatorships and totalitarian regimes spring up, yet it's always America that is "fascist."

 

[Humes fork]

We are all wild and wolflike?????? I hope you meant federalized especially since I make that kind of thing happen on my keyboard a lot......

Oh yes I meant federalized. My mistake.

 

[GlennB]

First, I learn the Greeks refuse to pay taxes but insist on retiring at 55.

My bolding.

You haven't learned anything. The "professional" classes routinely cheat on taxes, it's true (and it's a major problem) but salaried employees have deductions made at source the same as everywhere else. Meanwhile being taxed on 'assumed income' (based on visible assets etc) is already being introduced and will at least make a dent in the proceeds of the cheats, while actively hunting the serious cheats is gaining momentum.

Meanwhile the average effective retirement age for Greeks is the same as for Germans and a notch higher than for the French. oecd source . Of course some Greeks can take early retirement, but then so can many Brits, Dutch etc.

Oh, and btw, on average Greeks also work longer hours than their European chums.

 

[Dcdrac]

In Greece the corruption was laregly at the top and very widespread as in the UK too, this cannot be palced at the door of the EU, although it si the EU that is cleaning up hte mess, a supranational body clearing up th emess made by the LOCAL ruling elite.

Greeces is lucky it has the ECB to help it out while the UK....same issue not much chance of a bail out.

 

[MaGZ]

Greek police send crime victims to neo-Nazi 'protectors'



The austerity program seems to be playing right into their hands. They are gaining popularity by, among other things, distributing food to the people. It's inexcusable for the police to be openly cooperating with them though, handing over police work to a vigilante group. It seems that the people are gravitating in either one of two directions: to the far right or to the far left. The old center parties have failed.

It all sounds a bit familiar, doesn’t it?

 

[Humes fork]

In Greece the corruption was laregly at the top and very widespread as in the UK too, this cannot be palced at the door of the EU, although it si the EU that is cleaning up hte mess, a supranational body clearing up th emess made by the LOCAL ruling elite.

I agree that the EU can't be blamed for Greek corruption. Has anyone done that? However, Greece is a much, much more corrupt country than the UK.

Greeces is lucky it has the ECB to help it out while the UK....same issue not much chance of a bail out.

Due to the euro, Greece's economy is tied to other euro countries in a way that the UK economy isn't. Had Greece not been part of the euro, they could have depreciated their currency to get out of debt. The euro imposes a new gold standard which hinders Greece to effectively do anything. The UK manages its own currency and it doesn't need any bailout. And importantly, in the unlikely event of a UK default, it doesn't harm any other country the way a Greek default could.

 

[Eddie Dane]

It should be noted that on top of a collapsing economy and social order, Greece is overrun by immigrants.

I've seen footage of parks and squares in Athens where you literally have to step over these poor sods.

I imagine that this leads to a great many problems.

Here in rich, well-organised Holland, we have a very popular xenophobic party.
I can only imagine how much more traction these guys would have under the Greek conditions.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Oh, and as a side note:

Corruption in Greece is so utterly rampant, that I'm not so sure I'd pay taxes if I lived there.
Your money may not go beyond the office collecting it.