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Cont: Musk, SpaceX and future of Tesla II

JayUtah said:
Ostensibly a living UBI would supplant wages and create a class of buyers.
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In jeremyp's scenario, there would be no wages, because there would be no workers to earn wages. Just a bunch of robots violating conservation laws to do all the "work". Where would the UBI even come from? Arbitrarily-valued fiat currency?

One robot builds a house, another robot prints a coupon good for one house, a third robot gives you the coupon, and a fourth robot takes the coupon from you and registers the house in your name. That's not UBI, that's post-scarcity utopia.
 
theprestige said:
In jeremyp's scenario, there would be no wages, because there would be no workers to earn wages. Just a bunch of robots violating conservation laws to do all the "work". Where would the UBI even come from? Arbitrarily-valued fiat currency?

One robot builds a house, another robot prints a coupon good for one house, a third robot gives you the coupon, and a fourth robot takes the coupon from you and registers the house in your name. That's not UBI, that's post-scarcity utopia.
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i would attribute this to elon musks scenario
 
theprestige said:
Without workers, there aren't wages. Without wages, there aren't buyers. Without buyers, there aren't profits. Without profits, the universal income cannot be paid.
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This is a simplistic scenario. The reality is that, if we are to transition to a society where nobody works and everybody has a universal income, then the companies will have to keep supporting their ex workers either through paying them to do nothing or by being taxed and the government paying them. Of course, there isn't the political will to make it happen, so it won't.
 
theprestige said:
In jeremyp's scenario, there would be no wages, because there would be no workers to earn wages. Just a bunch of robots violating conservation laws to do all the "work". Where would the UBI even come from? Arbitrarily-valued fiat currency?

One robot builds a house, another robot prints a coupon good for one house, a third robot gives you the coupon, and a fourth robot takes the coupon from you and registers the house in your name. That's not UBI, that's post-scarcity utopia.
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It's not my scenario - it's Musk's - and I spent the rest of the post explaining why it will not happen.
 
dirtywick said:
there’s no scenario where nobody works.
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I just don't see any scenario where the Makers v. Takers attitude among billionaires is solved by robots. There is certainly the economic dilemma about what constitutes wealth and value and where they will come from and go to under the new system. But there is also the social attitude that says billionaires (and other kinds of classes of people) are just inherently better than others and thus inherently deserve their social and economic superiority. Elon Musk firmly believes he's a galaxy-brained genius who is the smartest person in every room and therefore fully entitled under the pure meritocracy that is the United States [pause for laughter] to have all the things and make all the decisions. He is the ultimate Maker in a system that should only reward Makers. I fail to see how he really believes in turning everyone into Takers and having that be okay. It is a violation of his fundamental beliefs about class and wealth, however distorted those views may be. He's interested in saving the world only if he gets to be the one to save it and if everyone treats him like their savior and pays him for it.
 
The gratifying part of being a billionaire is the vast number of people who aren't. Regardless of what criteria you use to draw lines between classes, the overwhelming rule is that those in the favored class inherently deserve the rewards of being in it because those rewards were earned and not bestowed. Those who didn't grind appropriately should not enjoy any such benefits. Under that rubric, billionaires exist because there is a pure, universally-accessible meritocracy that allows for and competitively creates billionaires, and that those who made it did so because they diligently exercised the meritorious principles that got them there and are just inherently better competitors. Your CEO earns 400 times more than you do because he works 400 times as hard and is 400 times smarter, not because he benefits from institutional wealth and privilege.

Elon Musk's enormous wealth is proof in his eyes that he's the superhuman he believes himself to be. All the fraud stuff—including petty nonsense like paying people to grind his video games for him—is in support of the illusion that he's the righteous product of a legitimate meritocracy. His cars are the best, his rockets are the best, his brain implants are the best, and his robots are the best because he's the best and he applied himself in a system that rewards only hard work and intelligence.

What boggles my mind is how so many people are so willing to buy into this obvious fable. The Vegas hyperloop is a bunch of people driving COTS Teslas along a mile of underground tunnel at 20 mph. But the blinky disco lights are supposed to make it ground-breaking and futuristic in a galaxy-brained genius sort of way. I can understand the part where the billionaires believe themselves to be inherently superior and inherently deserving of untold wealth, power, and privilege. I just fail to see why the people in the outgroup also believe this.
 
yeah it’s interesting to see. there’s never been people this rich and this powerful with access to tech capable of redefining their own realities to so many people. how can you promise to start production on a product next quarter for 6 years straight and still not be doing it and still be taken seriously?

it’s all image and branding.


if you’re interested and have about 5 minutes check out at round 1:19:00 for a cool explanation of how they’ve done what you’re describing, framed from the perspective of comedy podcasting. which might seem crazy but, hear it out
 
As Alfred Pennyworth put it, "Some people just want to watch the world burn." A big problem among the privileged classes (divide them how you will) is that they believe themselves to be impervious to the disasters the engender or allow. Only the undeserving parts of the world will burn. Economic collapse? I'll be okay. Corrupt government? I'll be okay. Social collapse? I'll be okay. This is why such inevitable products as Luigi Mangione and Tyler Robinson (who killed Charlie Kirk) receive such disproportionate panic among the privileged classes. They burst the bubble that says privilege is and ought to remain untouchable, and that any who think otherwise are just somehow pathologically jealous of deserved success.
 
it’s why they turn the comments off. valid criticism is an attack on their free speech. they’re haters, must be deranged with the woke mind virus. cancel culture.
 
JayUtah said:
As Alfred Pennyworth put it, "Some people just want to watch the world burn." A big problem among the privileged classes (divide them how you will) is that they believe themselves to be impervious to the disasters the engender or allow. Only the undeserving parts of the world will burn. Economic collapse? I'll be okay. Corrupt government? I'll be okay. Social collapse? I'll be okay. This is why such inevitable products as Luigi Mangione and Tyler Robinson (who killed Charlie Kirk) receive such disproportionate panic among the privileged classes. They burst the bubble that says privilege is and ought to remain untouchable, and that any who think otherwise are just somehow pathologically jealous of deserved success.
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The sad part is that the wealthy and privileged almost never suffer any tangible damages. What saddens me is how so many underprivileged people buy into the idea it won't affect them. Only those brown people.
 
One of the paradoxes of the right is the supposed love of law and order coupled with the prevailing belief among the privileged classes that rules are for suckers. This goes alongside the notion that might makes right: if you have millions to spend on legal fees, you should be able to skate away from being held accountable to public policy.
 
gabeygoat said:
Ding Dong, the DOGE is dead!
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DOGE under Elon Musk terminated all the government's pro subscriptions to Adobe products. This left them with only the Standard products. Full redaction of PDF files (i.e., actually removing the data) is a pro feature. The Standard version of Adobe Acrobat just visually obscures the rendering of the data. The DOJ's inability to effectively redact the Epstein files has become a problem for the regime. Score another one for Galaxy Brain!
 
JayUtah said:
One of the paradoxes of the right is the supposed love of law and order coupled with the prevailing belief among the privileged classes that rules are for suckers.
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Are you just completely obviously of the massive fraud uncovered in Minnesota?
 
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