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Missing our Troofs

OK, fair enough. I take you at your word that you were "simply wondering what [we] think really happened on 9/11" and that you weren't "even going to ask [us] to prove any parts of [our] hypotheses."

Small wonder, then, that you've gotten no replies. You're not proposing a very useful thread.

What happened on 9/11 has not ever been reliably proven by a duly authorized entity in the form of a validly determined investigation. Hence, small talk about it amongst speculators isn't really a worthwhile endeavor. We can all speculate in message boards, but 9/11 chat is not new. We know in advance what's likely to happen.

If the message board is one where most posters support the common storyline, then those who oppose it will be marginalized. If they oppose it effectively, then their posts will be hidden. If their posts are garden variety, then they'll be seized upon by debunkers as proof that debunkers are all knowing and all seeing.

I am just wondering what you THINK happened. Can we agree that 9/11 happened only one way?

I know it is all pure speculation. I'm not even asking you to prove your theory. You don't even have to say who you think carried out the attacks or why they did it. I'm just wondering how you think the attacks were carried out... What was the "grand plan" for 9/11?
 
Who said?

It's not so much a question of "who said" rather it's one of what happened to the thread and what happened to the first post offered up in response to Elmondo in this thread.

Now, granted, someone could start a new Dick Oliver thread; however, I don't think it prudent for me to be that person, if you get my drift.
 
One can reasonably infer that the handle "t j" stands for Torquemada Junior because the query it asks is set up so as to create a gotcha scenario. Torquemada Junior asks:

Do any truthers here have a plausible hypothesis for what they think happened on 9/11?

So, right at the outset, the endeavor is simply one of control. Torquemada asks the question, then gets to have a field day based on ridicule and a readily available "amen corner."

In saying, as you do, "10 days, 995 views and yet not a single Truther posting", you act surprised. No person who is interested in reasoned discourse would willingly go along with inquisitional tactics. tj15 has not demonstrated the least interest in having a reason-based discussion and is merely playing a stupid game based on the way the thread was set up.

We don't have a persecution complex, do we?
 
It's not so much a question of "who said" rather it's one of what happened to the thread and what happened to the first post offered up in response to Elmondo in this thread.

Now, granted, someone could start a new Dick Oliver thread; however, I don't think it prudent for me to be that person, if you get my drift.

Your post that was moved today was off topic. If the mods wanted to stifle a topic everytime time something goes to AAH then this would be a very empty sub-forum. We certainly wouldn't have a 100 threads about WTC 7 or a dozen threads about Judy Wood.
 
Sidenote II: Jammonius, you should stop derailing this thread and start another, lest you run afoul of the mods again.

The derail process is interesting. I did not initiate discussion of the CM video or post it. I was asked by 2 posters to reply to it.

Now a derail claim?

Look, I have no desire to derail Macgyver's thread. However, the OP indicated, in substance, that jammonius was "AWOL" and wondered why. I think I've been clear in saying I considered leaving this forum because of the hiding and the closing of the Dick Oliver thread.

Question asked; question answered. Much of what I've posted followed from that or replied to other posters.

Do you folks want me always to be on guard that everything I say is a possible rule violation?

Let me put it this way:

Would posters here rather I did not post in this forum?

I'm not saying I'll leave, but if that is the way some of you feel, then, why not come right out and scream it, for goodness sake? :eye-poppi
 
Your post that was moved today was off topic. If the mods wanted to stifle a topic everytime time something goes to AAH then this would be a very empty sub-forum. We certainly wouldn't have a 100 threads about WTC 7 or a dozen threads about Judy Wood.

Why in your view wasn't Elmondo's post moved as my post was merely a paragraph by paragraph reply to Elmondo's? I think that is what I find a bit confusing. :confused:

Mind you, posting in forums comes along with rules and regs and the arbitrary ability to limit what is or isn't posted. No one, least of all me, is unaware of that basic fact of message board posting.

Posting here is a pasttime. The issue for many is probably whether we spend too much time in such pursuits or not. How different is this from video gaming, really? :jaw-dropp
 
Why in your view wasn't Elmondo's post moved as my post was merely a paragraph by paragraph reply to Elmondo's? I think that is what I find a bit confusing. :confused:

Did you report it? Let me guess...

Mind you, posting in forums comes along with rules and regs and the arbitrary ability to limit what is or isn't posted. No one, least of all me, is unaware of that basic fact of message board posting.

You seem to understand the rules about as much as you understand 9/11

Posting here is a pasttime. The issue for many is probably whether we spend too much time in such pursuits or not. How different is this from video gaming, really? :jaw-dropp

Derailing the derail. nice.
 
We are all in agreement...there is no plane shown in the video. However the sound of the plane and impact is clearly recorded...just as in the Dick Oliver video. Now ...what is your take of the sounds in the video around the 20 second mark...which was my original question to you that you dodged.

For the life of me, I do not understand the claim of "dodge"? What are you trying to do by going in that direction? Perhaps the reason I do not understand that sort of reply from you is that I do not post that way. I do not try to put people in the role of being in a chair needing to answer questions. That is a form of gotcha. You know I do not play gotcha in terms of initiating games like that and I also do not put myself in the gotcha chair, either.

If you want to play 20 questions with someone Macgyver, please do so with someone willing to do that. I am not. If you want to objectively figure out what can reasonably be said about the sound in the CM video, we can do that.

I have started the discussion along those lines by comparing the sound, objectively and factually, with that of the Dick Oliver video. Did you read my post?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5863240&postcount=110
 
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Did you report it? Let me guess...



You seem to understand the rules about as much as you understand 9/11



Derailing the derail. nice.

Why are you judging my posts? What would you like for me to reply to and what do you want me to avoid mentioning on peril of being accused of derailing?
 
You are right..im going off topic in my own thread that has nothing to do with sounds on videos.

Is it possible for a mod to split this thread into a new thread entitled "Analysis of sounds of 9/11 videos" ? Please? I'll be your best friend.


Agreed.

Compus
 
I do know, however, that the sound interval was a lot shorter than that of the Dick Oliver video that lasted some 6 seconds prior to the crash sound. I also know that there were secondary crash sounds clearly audible in the video, unlike the Dick Oliver video.



Sidenote III: Unlike the Dick Oliver video, the video I linked to was of the second tower being hit.


Compus
 
There is value in interpreting people's first responses as and for what those responses are and what they actually said, at the time and in the moment before any filtering, editing and or rationalization, amongst other factors that lead to falsity, can take place.

Do you believe that context is unimportant?

Let me give you an example. I hit my thumb with a hammer. I say "**** that hurt". Am I talking abut a painful bowl movement? Let me give you one more. A friend drops a box behind me, I say "what the ****". Did my friend just have intercourse with the box?
 
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Do you believe that context is unimportant?

Let me give you an example. I hit my thumb with a hammer. I say "**** that hurt". Am I talking abut a painful bowl movement? Let me give you one more. A friend drops a box behind me, I say "what the ****". Did my friend just have intercourse with the box?

Your posting style differs from mine. As people who engage in reasoned discussion normally understand that context is an important factor, I, in my posting, would have assumed you had the ability to make a reasoned attempt at proper contextualization and would not have posted in a way that called your ability to do that in question.

Further, had I thought you had posted something that demonstrated what I considered to be improper contextualization I would have likely said something like this:

It seems to me your claim lacks proper context because, followed by x,y,z where x and where y and where z would all be claims associated with a demonstration of improper contextualization.

Look, if you think I have taken something out of context, permit me to request you come right out and scream it; and, if you are so inclined, also say why. One other step might be indicated, but I know, that further step is a difficult one for some.

That step is:

Be prepared for a reasoned response from me either agreeing or disagreeing that something I said was not in proper context.

Context is an element of rational discussion.

Let me ask for sake of understanding: Do you think I do not know what contextualization is or means or what its importance is to reasoned discussion?
 
Sidenote III: Unlike the Dick Oliver video, the video I linked to was of the second tower being hit.


Compus

Sorry if I led you to think I was not aware of that.

The reason for comparison of sound interval is that while they are different episodes, they are both said to involve Boeing 767 jetliners, one flying at 1000ft at about 450mph; the other at lower altitude, at about 800ft and at faster speed, 550mph+/-.

It is my supposition that there is no reason to presume the one would be heard for any lesser a time than the other by people who were within the distance of both cameras to both events. One other important factor here is that the sound in the CM video agrees with the report given by Asst. Commissioner Stephen Gregory. It might be recalled by some that I quoted him. He said, if I recall it correctly, that he heard a roar and that he didn't think it was a plane. He also did not see a plane although he was standing at West Street, between Liberty and Albany, at the command post. The video is also consistent with our very own witness -- jr343 -- who reported the length of the sound as being in 3 distinct one second intervals of zhoop, crack boom. I also posted that up too.

I think there is some convergence here between the CM video and the witnesses, posters.

One query that deserves to be considered in connection with the CM video is: Where was the camera located, what street and what intersection? Is it Church Street, some other street and what cross street?
 
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The issue for many is probably whether we spend too much time in such pursuits or not. How different is this from video gaming, really? :jaw-dropp

The 3,000 people I killed in the last month video gaming all respawned 15 seconds later.

In the course of stroking your ego on the internet, you may have heard that there were 3,000 people who died on 9/11. They don't get to come back, ever.

Most of us understand the difference. You apparently do not.
 
Folks, this thread has become a bit of a mess. There are multiple reported posts and requests for splits, etc. Please be patient while cleanup in aisle four is sorted out.
Posted By: LashL
 
[
s that existed last weekend was harmful to you, not to me.

. So, with that, take care and enjoy the other threads in the forum. At present, there's nothing here for me and perhaps that is the way most of you want it to be. Farewell then.

Farewell then.[/QUOTE]

I think we now know just how closely to home the Dick Oliver video and the analysis of it hits.

Farewell, one and all.

Delacroix+The+Death+of+Ophelia+1843.jpg

You Said You Were Leaving
Go Away Already
Bye



 
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