MGM UK

[Mycroft]

I just want to say that the advertisement that popped up when I opened this thread offered me a "free cutter". I don't know for sure what it was supposed to cut, but it looked about the right size for the thread topic.

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[quadraginta]

And for how long exactly should my prison sentence be?

How long will it take to grow back?

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

Now, I have also forced them to sit through Hebrew school and services, both of which they: 1) remember; 2) hated; and 3) lasted a million times longer than their circumcisions.
<snip>

Grew back that quick?

Wow.

 

[Seismosaurus]

And for how long exactly should my prison sentence be?

As I understand it, that generally depends on the exact circumstances of the particular crime. But as a general rule of thumb, I'd pitch the sentence for "I circumcised my child" around the same level as other permanent maimings - "I cut the tip of my child's finger off" or "I poured acid over my child".

I couldn't claim lots of experience in such cases. In the ballpark of 2-10 years sounds about right to me.

 

[Seismosaurus]

I love people telling me how up in arms I should be because I was circumcised.

Has anybody actually done that, though? Not that I've seen in this thread.

I would certainly be up in arms if it had happened to me. But I'm not you - naturally you have every right to your own response to what happened to you.

Similarly, if I were assaulted or raped or robbed, I would be very up in arms about it. But if those things happened to you and you thought it was no big deal, that's great - and lucky you for being able to write them off as nothing much.

The fact that it doesn't bother some people isn't really an argument that assaulting and raping and robbing people isn't a problem and shouldn't be illegal, though, yes?

I'm even more entertained at the fact people make it their business.

Then I'm sorry to have denied you the entertainment that would have provided in my case.

I'm 36 years old, and I've never, Ever, EVER felt like I was "mutilated"

You were mutilated whether you have ever felt like you were or not. To "mutilate" somebody is to "injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts". Circumcision is mutilation, and your feeling that it doesn't count as such doesn't alter that fact.

or otherwise retarded in my progress because of it. It hasn't stopped me from enjoying sex. It hasn't stopped me from experiencing anything in my life.

So?

Every time I see this come up, and granted my views are anecdotal, I think to myself, "Who gives a ******"

*shrug* There are people with that attitude to every bad thing in the world.

But nobody requires you to care about things you don't care about. That doesn't stop other people caring about it, though.

 

[Loss Leader]

Was it necessary to operate on them to achieve the highlighted part?

According to my religious leaders, it was.

Thing is, they can accept or reject the religious/community/culture identity part when older.

Can they, though? I'm sure if I wanted to, I could move to Copenhagen and become a proud Dane. But I was raised an American and have a bias towards that group.

I could choose never to speak English again and only Danish. But research says it will be far harder for me to do as an adult. Research also says that I may always count in my native language, no matter how proficient I become in my new chosen language.

Parents make choices for their children every day, thousands of times a day. Should I wait until my son is 18 before teaching him English? Should I not celebrate Independence Day in front of him until, as an adult, he chooses this nation? The very idea is ridiculous. Children grow up in the culture their parents provide and, while a few may choose to part ways, most will continue to pass that culture down to their children.

That's what substituted judgment means. That's how it works.

They can't regrow their foreskins. If they accept it they can then choose to get the operation, fully aware of all it entails.

Except that circumcision of an adult is far more difficult, has a much higher probability of complications, and actually does affect sexual performance and pleasure. If anything, I do them a favor by performing the procedure before the brain has even begun mapping the nerve impulses from the body. Circumcising an adult is cruel.

You had no right to modify your kids' bodies for the reasons you give here.

The United States Constitution just called and said you can blow it out your backside. Also, you are both legally and religiously wrong.

"Tribal scars" can be justified in exactly the same way you've justified your actions. You OK with those too?

Depending on the age of the child, the duration of pain, and barring any adverse medical effects, I might not have a problem with a parent substituting his/her judgment in that case.

Actually, I'm beginning to suspect you're engaged in very deep irony here.

No. I'm a rational thinker who happens to have reasoned out that family cohesion through religious ritual is vital to the welfare of my children. Not just important, but vital.

 

[Mycroft]

I'm glad they were arrested. I hope the Doctor is struck off, and all three do jail time.

Circumcision of an infant should be illegal, period. It should be treated like what it is - child abuse.

I'm circumcised, but I was not abused.

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[Delphic Oracle]

Parents make choices for their children every day, thousands of times a day. Should I wait until my son is 18 before teaching him English? Should I not celebrate Independence Day in front of him until, as an adult, he chooses this nation? The very idea is ridiculous. Children grow up in the culture their parents provide and, while a few may choose to part ways, most will continue to pass that culture down to their children.

Language choice is a more practical consideration. You would find a lot of hostility to the idea of refusing your child to be taught any language and probably if not allowed to learn the predominant local language. Public education alone would be nigh impossible. It's not too hard to imagine being reviewed by child services for going that far.

Except that circumcision of an adult is far more difficult, has a much higher probability of complications, and actually does affect sexual performance and pleasure. If anything, I do them a favor by performing the procedure before the brain has even begun mapping the nerve impulses from the body. Circumcising an adult is cruel.

The development of circumcised vs. Not is remarkably different. There are cosmetic procedures for removing problematic foreskin without damaging the nerve complex or scarring the ridge to the point of preventing unravelling to expose the mucous membrane packed with nerve endings. For a male circumcised at birth, the sensations are primarily in the glans, which has far fewer sensory nerves per unit area. Also, with no foreskin to protect it, the glans tends to callous over somewhat.

If statements from international friends are to be believed, American men tend to spend a lot of time "jack-hammering." Naturally, there's not exactly a lot of solid data to indicate wider correlation or identify causation.

The United States Constitution just called and said you can blow it out your backside. Also, you are both legally and religiously wrong.

Nailed the stereotype to a "T" there...

No. I'm a rational thinker who happens to have reasoned out that family cohesion through religious ritual is vital to the welfare of my children. Not just important, but vital.

*COUGH*

But even past that. Who's knocking the idea of respecting traditions? You're hiding behind a decontextualization. It's not the idea of familial or communal bonding rituals, it's a specific one that has no practical or positive benefit, numerous potential hazards, and could just as easily be any of a billion other options and still have "shared cultural practice" value to it.

ETA: Then you can teach your children about that ancient practice no longer observed and when they ask why, you say because we decided to. They will grow up knowing that questioning things is okay. So they'll be critical thinkers like their ancestors were.

Well, maybe the next sentient species this planet pops out will have better luck.

 

[theprestige]

You were mutilated whether you have ever felt like you were or not. To "mutilate" somebody is to "injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts".

I'm injured? Show me how.

I'm disfigured? That's subjective.

I'm damaged? Funny how neither I, nor my many partners, nor my various physicians, have ever remarked on any such damage.

Body modification is a continuum of practice, ranging from harmful to benign. It encompasses cultural traditions both ancient and modern. Your vicarious hangups are frankly offensive.

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[theprestige]

No you could not. You can get some of the appearance but you cannot regenerate the nerves and other fine structures. Having your foreskin "restored" would not enable you to experience what a non-circumcised man experiences. And your previous scars would remain.

"Too few nerve endings in my penis!" has honestly never seen problem for me.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.

 

[sadhatter]

Reputable vets are stopping docking animals tails because it is cruel.

Enough said really.

 

[theprestige]

Reputable vets are stopping docking animals tails because it is cruel.

Enough said really.

Not even remotely. Keep talking to me about my penis. I'll tell you when you've said enough.

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[Darat]

"Too few nerve endings in my penis!" has honestly never seen problem for me.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.

You said you were not damaged but that is simply factually wrong. Tissue that served a functional purpose was removed from your penis permanently altering it and leaving you with scars.

 

[Information Analyst]

Reputable vets are stopping docking animals tails because it is cruel.

Enough said really.

A shame American vets haven't got the same message about declawing cats. But I digress... Or maybe not, as it's all about things being normalised in a society that should not be.

 

[3point14]

I...I can't even. Ok, whatever LoL. That leap in logic is unhinged to me, but you seem to believe it, so ok. Apparently, I'm all for tattooing a baby.

From this I draw that you think tattooing a baby is a ridiculous proposition - Is that what you were trying to convey?

 

[3point14]

The United States Constitution just called and said you can blow it out your backside. Also, you are both legally and religiously wrong.

Interesting. How much mutilation does the US constitution allow? Are the extreme FGM practices found in some parts of Africa protected by the US constitution?

 

[GlennB]

Was it necessary to operate on them to achieve the highlighted part? [cultural identity]

According to my religious leaders, it was.
....
No. I'm a rational thinker who happens to have reasoned out that family cohesion through religious ritual is vital to the welfare of my children. Not just important, but vital.

Er, have you taken the word of your religious leaders or worked it out for yourself? It's unclear.

While we're here, do you actually believe that god confronted Abraham and struck that deal? It is, after all, the only justification for the practice that the Bible has to offer.

 

[Loss Leader]

Interesting. How much mutilation does the US constitution allow? Are the extreme FGM practices found in some parts of Africa protected by the US constitution?

I'm not a constitutional scholar. I'm sure much FGM is not protected as a religious right. The age of the child and the harm done would be factors to weigh.

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[Loss Leader]

While we're here, do you actually believe that god confronted Abraham and struck that deal? It is, after all, the only justification for the practice that the Bible has to offer.

Of course I dont believe in the events in the bible or even in s concept of a god. My justification doesn't come from the bible. It comes from a desire to strengthen their cultural and familial bonds.


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[theprestige]

You said you were not damaged but that is simply factually wrong. Tissue that served a functional purpose was removed from your penis permanently altering it and leaving you with scars.

Darat, does it bother you that I'm circumcised?

This signature is intended to irradiate people.