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Mediums - advice please?

Senex I went straight into her house so I didn't tell her anything or write anything down at all. I had been chatting to her on the phone as I got lost on the way to her house, but I didn't say anything personal to her. I did mention I had a baby when I made the booking and she did use this.

Becky,

I didn't mean to mock you. Just think, if anyone had the ability you thought this medium had when you first saw her, wouldn't she be making millions of dollars/Euros working for a government or at least a large corporation instead of taking what money you have to offer her?
 
I've never thought of it like that. I know lots of people who go to mediums all the time and really believe it. It's only when you look at sites like this you start to realise how silly you are and how taken in you've been. Like many people have said you only go to these people when you are vulnerable so you're unlikely to be thinking straight.
 
I've never thought of it like that. I know lots of people who go to mediums all the time and really believe it. It's only when you look at sites like this you start to realise how silly you are and how taken in you've been. Like many people have said you only go to these people when you are vulnerable so you're unlikely to be thinking straight.

You are not silly. You are someone who questioned something you were uncomfortable with and did some research. You are someone who should be proud.
 
Becky, name her.If she is doing a tour then mayeb I can get a reading and/or totally debunk her.

I'm sure I could find out who she is anyway,then I will post her name.So save me the trouble and show you are serious about finding out about these frauds.
 
I'm not sure I feel comfortable naming her! She isn't anyone I'd ever heard of, but does have her own webpage and business card so I guss she is running a proper business and making money out of this stuff.

Hi again, Becky --

Well, for what it's worth, I personally (and this is just my opinion) don't think she's running a proper business, because she's lying. She's claiming to do something that she is in all probability not doing -- i.e., speaking to the dead. Penn & Teller are two magician/comedians who have a show on the US cable channel HBO called "Bull****!" and they did an epsiode on mediums. I think they expressed my own problem with mediums more directly than I would have thought to say, which was to say that what makes mediums so reprehensible is that they're replacing real, true, honest memories of one's loved ones with saccharine nonesense. Only they swore a lot more when they said it. ; )

Some mediums, like Sylvia Browne, actually go so far as to diagnose medical problems and recommend treatment (that is, they recommend specific medicines to take), while having no medical background whatsoever. This is, as I'm sure you can see, inherently dangerous.

It is definitely true that your medium is running a business, and making money. But she's doing it through fraud and by taking advantage of people who are in altered emotional states because of depression, anxiety, or bereavement. As such, I hope you can understand why I don't think -- even without knowing her -- that she's worth your protection.
 
I will now exercise my own psychic powers...

[Assuming this is her, we could all refrain from using her name in responses (other than using spoiler tags or whatnot) so as to avoid her finding out about this via ego-searches, as Becky has expressed a wish not to name her.]
 
I've never thought of it like that. I know lots of people who go to mediums all the time and really believe it. It's only when you look at sites like this you start to realise how silly you are and how taken in you've been. Like many people have said you only go to these people when you are vulnerable so you're unlikely to be thinking straight.

Becky, welcome to the forums.

Most people here have offered some fantastic advice, and I'd recommend you doing some reading and ask questions to form your own opinion based on this.

One thing I do have to add though; believing is not silly. It's not correct, and it's not helpful behaviour, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that stupid people believe in stupid things. Often it's quite the opposite. We're actually geared to accept supernatural explanations over natural ones, to remember hits and forget misses, to believe cold reading and to desire it to be real. It takes some courage and some effort to step back and seek confirmation on what is real and what isn't. The fact that you followed that nagging doubt that something was amiss demonstrates that you have enough confidence to address that.

It's not a common thing to do, because humans aren't built to be entirely rational. If you like, we kind of have to train ourselves to be skeptical. But the rewards are that we get a better idea of what might be real and what might not be.

:)

Athon
 
I've never thought of it like that. I know lots of people who go to mediums all the time and really believe it. It's only when you look at sites like this you start to realise how silly you are and how taken in you've been. Like many people have said you only go to these people when you are vulnerable so you're unlikely to be thinking straight.

Senex said this but it is worth repeating: you are not silly.

No-one here in the JREF forums will ever call you that because you are doing something that takes courage and strength of character. You are questioning beliefs that you have held for a very long time. Beliefs that are easy and nice and feel-good.

You have taken a step by coming here that will, if you stay the course, lead you to discover the truth about more than just how this one medium fooled you, but how all mediums perpetrate a cruel fraud on vulnerable people. You'll learn how these mediums who claim only to be trying to help are actually stealing memories and money from people who went to them in good faith looking only for a bit of comfort. These mediums don't care one jot about your comfort, they only care about what they themselves can get from the reading. Some want money, some want fame, some just want to think they are 'special' and have a gift that is rare.

All of them are liars, intentional or not. They claim to be able to do somethng they cannot.

You, Becky, are now in posting on a message board with other people who will support you and help you in your search to find out if there is any truth in mediumship.

Let me say it one more time: No one here thinks you are silly.
 
I second what Reno says about none of us thinking you are silly. I joined here not too long ago and no-one thought I was silly when I mentioned that I used to believe Sylvia Browne, a well-known American "psychic." I actually found this place when I began to do more research on people who I thought could be genuine, then gradually realized that none of them are. Now I'm here. It's a good place to be. Welcome!
 
And ditto to Senex, Reno, & Minarvia. Intelligent and serious people are conned all the time; it's the nature of conning. ; )

In my opinion, stupid people are the ones who persist in believing when presented with the evidence. You are most definitely not that, nor silly.
 
Welcome Becky!

I dont post much here, as anything I have to say is usually said better by people much smarter than myself. :) I do visit the site everyday and find myself learning things about a great many subjects. As someone who has always prided myself on my intelligence and rationality I know how hard it can be to admit to yourself that beliefs that you hold may be wrong. In my case it was the UFO phenomenon, and I had myself convinced that my beliefs were held on the basis of rational thought when really they reflected what I wanted to be true.

If I can just make a couple of quick observations about JREF:
This site is a wonderful resource for testing claims that you suspect may be dubious. You will find many knowledgeable, kind and wise people here ready to help with independantly verifiable information on almost any subject you can think of. However, as this is a critical thinking and sceptics site, most posters are definately in the "There is no evidence to support claims of the paranormal" camp. (I'm one!) You will have noticed that pretty much everyone in this thread believes that ALL mediums, not just yours, are not able to contact the dead. This sometimes can be a little intimidating to people who are on the fence with regard to paranormal phenomena. Sometimes posters will express frustration at irrational beliefs by using mildly derogative terms like "woo woo".

Please be aware that the majority of people here do not have blind beliefs about the paranormal. Those of us who disbelieve are prepared to back up our position. So if somebody makes what seems to be a sweeping claim about psychics or anything else, dont be shy about asking them for their evidence. Usually they will be happy to oblige. :)

There is a LOT of information here about mediums and psychics, both in general and in the personal experience of JREF members. For my part, I strongly recommend that you read this (long) thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52101&page=31

Kelly's experience really brought home to me how much harm even well intentioned mediums can do, and her courage and integrity are humbling.

Anyway, welcome aboard, I hope you will find your time here well spent. :)
 
Thanks for all your kind comments and now I know that psychic powers DO exist - Big Les has them;) You have all opened my eyes already! I don't get much chance to be online, but will certainly read the threads you suggest and stick around on the forum.

One question I do have is that my sister in law (also a firm believer) lost someone close and went to a medium who told her things nobody could have known. She even mentioned the person she had lost by name and I thought about the obituaries, but the surnames were different - how could this happen?
 
One question I do have is that my sister in law (also a firm believer) lost someone close and went to a medium who told her things nobody could have known. She even mentioned the person she had lost by name and I thought about the obituaries, but the surnames were different - how could this happen?

That's where a transcript or tape recorder would come in handy -- the first thing you'd want to establish is that the medium referred to the deceased by surname (and actually, definitively did so; the memory is a tricky thing, which is why it's handy to have recording devices). The second thing you'd want to determine is whether the medium "fished" for information (for example, if I tell you that I'm sensing a name that starts with "B", and you confirm it, and, through the obits, I happen to know that someone named "Barbara" passed recently...). (A combination of hot and cold reading.)

Another thing I'd be curious about is whether the medium and your sister know each other outside of the medium's business, or share any common friends (who, perhaps, upon hearing about your sister's bereavement, suggested the medium, and then told the medium the details about the bereavement. (Hot reading.)

That's where I'd start, at least.
 
That's where a transcript or tape recorder would come in handy -- the first thing you'd want to establish is that the medium referred to the deceased by surname (and actually, definitively did so; the memory is a tricky thing, which is why it's handy to have recording devices).

Again, this is something Ian Rowland suggests, with the caveat that you make your own recording and not depend on one supplied by the psychic (possibly for an extra fee). Wait a week or so, then compare your memory to the tape. It would also be interesting to compare a recording you make yourself, covertly (recorder in the pocket, etc), with one supplied by the medium (after s/he's had a chance to edit it).
 
Big Les' psychic powers seem to have found a site without the usual disclaimers.

The owner of that site is a criminal.


The Fradulent Mediums Act 1951....This law was introduced to replace the Witchcraft Act of 1735 and makes any person eligible for up to two years in prison who “with intent to deceive, purports to act as a spiritualistic medium or to exercise any powers of telepathy, clairvoyance or other similar powers”.
Source: The Times

WHOIS has an address (Rotherham) but a different name.

Any locals?

If anyone went to any psychic or medium that did not make it clear that what they were doing was for entertainment purposes only, they are a criminal.

.
 
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Hi Becky, and welcome to the forums!

I've only skimmed through other people's replies so forgive me if I'm repeating a point that's already been made.

... and about 5 people had recommended her to me so I thought she was the real deal ...

So five people who know you pretty well (well enough to recommend a psychic to you) have already had sessions with the psychic. Isn't it possible that one or more of those five has unintentionally already given the psychic some personal info about you? For example someone says to the psychic "I have a friend Becky who might like a session with you ... she's concerned about X, Y and Z. I'll recommend you to her ..."

One question I do have is that my sister in law (also a firm believer) lost someone close and went to a medium who told her things nobody could have known. She even mentioned the person she had lost by name and I thought about the obituaries, but the surnames were different - how could this happen?

"Nobody could have known"? Not even close friends or relations? And maybe one of those who did know was the person who recommended that psychic to your sister in law?


No, you are not silly. Many people here (myself included) have believed in some pretty weird stuff in the past. If you do stick around you'll also find people who still believe in weird stuff - no matter how much evidence against their beliefs is presented to them.
 
No, you are not silly. Many people here (myself included) have believed in some pretty weird stuff in the past. If you do stick around you'll also find people who still believe in weird stuff - no matter how much evidence against their beliefs is presented to them.
I'll tell you some of my story. Back when I was much younger, I was a pretty firm believer in all thing paranormal and supernatural. So was my (then) husband - he was even more a believer. One day, we both went to see a medium for a reading. She was amazingly accurate, telling us things she couldn't possibly have guessed. She even told us she could see us in the near future running a shop, with my husband learning to play music. We had actually been discussing those plans during the week!
After the reading, on the way home, I enthused about it. "Yes, she is good" said my husband, "I could feel her psychic power as soon as I met her at X's house last week."
"You've met her before?" This was the first I had heard of it.
"Yes," he went on happily, "We talked about lots of things."
"So" I said, "You could have told her all that?"
"Perhaps. But what does it matter if I did? She's definately in contact with the Higher Beings - what she said just confirmed that our plans will be fulfilled!"

Of course, none of the medium's predictions came about. In fact, she never said a word about the divorce, death, illnesses etc that were to hit us in the next four or five years.

So, Becky, please don't feel silly!
 
One question I do have is that my sister in law (also a firm believer) lost someone close and went to a medium who told her things nobody could have known. She even mentioned the person she had lost by name and I thought about the obituaries, but the surnames were different - how could this happen?

Occams razor:"All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one. In other words, when multiple competing theories are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the theory that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest hypothetical entities."

In your sisters case we have at least two competing theories for how the medium knew certain information.

1) The medium knew the name of the person your sister in law lost by contacting spirits of the dead.

2) The medium knew the name of the person your sister in law lost by obtaining information through conventional means.

On the face of it, both seem unlikely but which possible explanation depends on the fewest assumptions?

In the case of 1) we have to assume that contact with spirits is possible. We also have to assume that they can give specific, reliable information to the living.

Can we test these assumptions? Well, we can look into the scientific evidence of contact with the dead. In spite of decades of research by dedicated people who truly wanted to believe in survival after death (and who wouldnt?) there simply isnt any. No murder victim has ever named their killer when that information was not public. No spirit of a kidnap victim has ever directed searchers to their body. Shakespeare will show up for a seance but not give any information about those aspects of his life that are lost to history. Famous authors whose works have been lost do not dictate them from beyonfd the grave. In response to a JREF members query every police force in Britain recently issued statements that "psychic" abilities had never assisted in the solving of a criminal case. We can note that the Ministry of Defence recently carried out it's own research into whether psychic abilities could be used to help defend the nation. No such abilities could be detected, let alone harnessed. Interestingly, all of the professional psychics (who were advertising their services online) contacted by the MOD refused to take part in the research, just as all high profile mediums steadfastly refuse to have their abilities tested under controlled conditions. The JREF million is still unclaimed.

We can look into the history of the mediums and the spiritualist movement. We can note that it was invented out of whole cloth by two sisters who admitted that what they were doing was fraud and demonstrated their ability to reproduce "supernatural" phenomena at will - but not before spiritualism became a fad that swept the Western world in the late 19th century. We can note that the famous mediums of the heyday of spiritualism in the 1920s could produce spectacular effects that psychics today cant emulate - musical instruments appearing in thin air, levitation, ectoplasm emerging from a mediums body and assuming human forms - until they were all caught red handed in blatant fraud.

We can examine the methods of modern charlatans who have been caught in trickery, from the unsophisticated lies of Derek Acorah to the hot readings via concealed radio earpiece of faith healer Peter Popoff.

Clearly there is little on which to base an assumption of psychic ability and accuracy, and much to be suspicious of.

In the case of 2) We have to assume that someone can obtain and be in possession of information about someone without their knowledge through non supernatural means.

In this case it is easy to find examples from our everyday lives. A simple google search will reveal biographical details of nearly anyone who has been in the public eye. Your bank will advise you to shred personal documents before binning them because of the danger of identity theft. Family gossip. You will probably know some personal details of people you have never met, relatives of friends for instance. If I ever happen to meet the parents of one of my coworkers I could amaze them with my psychic powers, giving them chapter and verse of their medical history and problems with fitted kitchens. ;)

In the case of your sister in law it is impossible for us to know specifically how the medium gained that information - we only have a very small part of the picture. Was the medium a complete stranger? What was the information flow between your sister in law and the medium? Did your sister in law visit the medium on the recommendation of someone else? Is it possible the medium and your sister in law have mutual acquaintances? How private was the information given?

The very fact that your sister in law was given such specific information sends up a red flag for me. Vague generalities are very much the rule when dealing with mediums - often spirits dont seem too sure what their name is. If the spirit is capable of providing very exact information it should be able to do so consistently. If this was just one piece of bang on personal information amid a sea of fishing for further details I would be extremely suspicious.

If this is a professional medium who advertises their services would you consider identifying them so that others might evaluate them for themselves? It may be someone who somebody here has run into before, or has some knowledge of their methods.
 
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Welcome, Becky!!

People have related some great stories, and given some spot-on advice - as well as good homework assignments! ;)

Let me throw my $.02 in as well... Part of being a skeptic is being aware of the mistakes we can make in our thinking. Things like Confirmation bias, the Forer effect and a LOT of other cognitive biases.

I remember when I first heard about these, I was shocked and surprised that I made these mistakes myself. Once you're aware of how easy it is to fall into the trap of "wrong thinking", it really puts things into perspective.
 
One question I do have is that my sister in law (also a firm believer) lost someone close and went to a medium who told her things nobody could have known. She even mentioned the person she had lost by name and I thought about the obituaries, but the surnames were different - how could this happen?

Without an exact transcript (or videotape) of the event, it's impossible to say, but most likely, A combination of good cold reading, lucky guesses, confirmation bias on the part of your SIL, vague hints from the medium that your SIL filled in the missing info, and later remembered incorrectly.

Did the medium say "John Smith was killed in a car wreck" or was it something like "I see the letter G or J, and a tragic event"? While your SIL, probably remembers it as the former, I'd bet money it was closer to the latter (of course we'll never know without a recording). Human memory is pretty poor to begin with, and add in the fact that she was grieving, it's not at all a stretch to believe that her memory is faulty. And that's not intended as an insult to her at all.
 

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