@Miss Anthrope: Thanks! I guess it's my fault since I didn't start a thread properly...
@Becky: You said you are changing your belief and I guess this is were we differ- I was a sceptic long before I joined (I thought I was quite alone in not believing all the BS we are fed from everywhere) but I would like to say this:
What you are experiencing is a 'revolution', a total remake of a part of your personality. I think that you will experience some resitasnce from yourself in this, but sooner or later when you have gained enough experience of the other side (no pun intended) you will realize your errors and be able to stand up and say: I was wrong.
The only way I have experienced something like it is in a few political questions, but the principle is the same.
Oh yes, one thing I have learned when dealing with believers is that it is quite exciting watching their belief crumble when asked for evidence or simply questioning their way and behaviour. It might not always change them immediately, but a seed has been planted.
And if in doubt, always refer to jref.org.
@Becky: You said you are changing your belief and I guess this is were we differ- I was a sceptic long before I joined (I thought I was quite alone in not believing all the BS we are fed from everywhere) but I would like to say this:
What you are experiencing is a 'revolution', a total remake of a part of your personality. I think that you will experience some resitasnce from yourself in this, but sooner or later when you have gained enough experience of the other side (no pun intended) you will realize your errors and be able to stand up and say: I was wrong.
The only way I have experienced something like it is in a few political questions, but the principle is the same.
Oh yes, one thing I have learned when dealing with believers is that it is quite exciting watching their belief crumble when asked for evidence or simply questioning their way and behaviour. It might not always change them immediately, but a seed has been planted.
And if in doubt, always refer to jref.org.
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Beady
Philosopher
Exciting?
Perhaps we should back up a moment, and Becky could describe what it felt like. Then we can discuss whether "excitement" is appropriate.
Myself, I never thought that skepticism should preclude compassion.
I guess it's exciting if you've been a sceptic all your life and you watch a believer not believing, but when you've been a believer it's horrid...and there's still a little bit of you that hangs on to that belief even when you read all the stuff about cold reading and hot reading and you know how it's done. There's still that tiny bit of you that thinks how can I have been duped for my entire life?! How silly have I been to be played by that and not seen it and surely if so many people believe there must be some truth in it. That's why everytime someone tells me something like my friend with the bear I'm like oh maybe it's real - because I am still clinging to some hope that everything I have ever believed might be real (although I now know it's not!) Hope that makes sense.
Becky, you may think that you are facing jumping off a diving board into a fog and not knowing how high it is - kinda very scary. But it's actually no jump at all but a step down onto solid land with clear skies. Try it!
Also, can I ask: try to remember if you needed to book in advance, and/or had to pay for any services by credit card at any point. Yes?
Also, can I ask: try to remember if you needed to book in advance, and/or had to pay for any services by credit card at any point. Yes?
Yes I booked in advance, but didn't give any credit card details. I remember I told her I had a baby too as I asked if it would be OK to take him and on the way to her house I got lost so spent lots of time on the phone with her. I don't think I gave anything away, but thinking back I can't be sure.
jimtron
Illuminator
I know you're all going to jump up and down now as I am asking the same questions over again, but I have just spoken to a friend who has just been to a "party" for a reading and the woman knew quite a lot of stuff. I have just informed my friend all about cold reading techniques and as she is a great believer she obviously didn't listen to a word, but there was one thing that even made me wonder. The lady told her nannan was there with a teddy that she had as a little girl and named the teddy (the name now escapes me!) - how could she have known this? This is the kind of stuff that stops me from being a true sceptic no matter how much I read.
Sorry if this is dull for you all
Welcome Becky! There have been many good posts describing what may have happened here. Another way to look at this: how come no psychic can do this under proper test conditions? If there are folks who can read minds and remote view and find missing people--it would be good to study these abilities and put them to good use. How about warning us about 9/11? Finding Bin Laden? Missing children (I know psychics claim they can do this, but look at the actual record and it doesn't seem to be the case).
If a psychic can accurately predict the future, that would be so easy to prove. Start making specific predictions here at this forum, or to a reliable reporter, or in newspaper classified ads. If a medium can talk to dead people, ask them something very personal, that only you and the deceased know (not something that could be a public record, or found through spying or research). Why hasn't anyone been able to demonstrate paranormal ability under scrutiny? The other explanations (cold and hot reading, etc.) sure seem a lot more likely.
Hi Jimtron
I know that what you are saying is totally right, it's just accepting it that is so hard!
When I visited a medium I had gone in there with a specific thing I wanted her to say about my nan - something she used to call me that nobody could have known. As it was she couldn't even tell if it was dad's or mum's mum that was with her! I think I said before but surely whoever was with her would have said " no love you've got it wrong it's Mary". As it was she didn't give my grandparents any names so she covered herself totally.
She told me a lot of things and gave me a lot of names that I didn't know about and backed those up with you ask your parents I'm sure it'll be true. When you're looking for answers you cling to these things in the hope they're true.
Now I know that she didn't really get any specific hits and the ones she did get were very easy to guess at.
I agree if there were real psychic ability then people would be more ready to be tested and in a controlled test.
I know that what you are saying is totally right, it's just accepting it that is so hard!
When I visited a medium I had gone in there with a specific thing I wanted her to say about my nan - something she used to call me that nobody could have known. As it was she couldn't even tell if it was dad's or mum's mum that was with her! I think I said before but surely whoever was with her would have said " no love you've got it wrong it's Mary". As it was she didn't give my grandparents any names so she covered herself totally.
She told me a lot of things and gave me a lot of names that I didn't know about and backed those up with you ask your parents I'm sure it'll be true. When you're looking for answers you cling to these things in the hope they're true.
Now I know that she didn't really get any specific hits and the ones she did get were very easy to guess at.
I agree if there were real psychic ability then people would be more ready to be tested and in a controlled test.
So the psychic had your name well in advance, plus your address probably, or at least your phone number (from the caller-ID of your phone). There are "reverse phone books" on the internet (a standard psychic's tool!) that can get your name and address from your phone number. A credit card number is just as useful.
With that info, they can start looking up all the same info that any family-tree researcher would look for, and much of this is already online. Your family history, birth and death and marriage info, perhaps news stories, local connections, even juicy tidbits you may not have known about. A few minutes Googling will bring up all sorts of stuff about you! "Name" psychics get their assistants to do this for them!
And you may have also inadvertantly given away a few more bits as well before you got there. It takes very little to build up a complete detailed picture. PLUS all the cold-reading stuff on the day.
So you see it is predictably VERY easy to be "psychic" if you already know all about the subject before they even walk in the door for their reading... Money for old rope!
jimtron
Illuminator
I feel for you. Take your time and give yourself a chance to deal with this major change. I'm sure you'll be better off in the long run.
I totally agree! I am just reading anything and everything I can right now. I just found out my sisters new boyfriends great great Aunt was Helen Duncan so had great fun googling her and seeing her totally debunked
I would have just took her story at face value before. It's much more interesting to challenge these things than just accept them.Flo
Illuminator
and it's not someone you know personnally, and you don't have to see the pain when his worldview crumbles in front of him and live and help through the phases of the changes.
Take heart, Becky. As you've seen, most skeptics don't think you've been silly, they don't gloat over what you're going through (many had the same experience), and contrary to their reputation at the hands of the woo-mafia, they do care about the (ex-) believers' feelings.
And becky, when you realise you have been taken in, that's when you start to understand how poorly you have been served by others who have been trying to rip off your beliefs.
It also makes us extremely angry at how the memories of our loved ones have been misused. We all have lingering memories of deceased family members and friends - some lost under tragic circumstances, most sorely missed for a very long time. Skeptics are not the slightest bit immune to grief, I assure you. Their legacy is in the rememberances of those of us who live past them, and who continue to miss them. So it is all the more tragic that these precious memories should be abused and traded on and trodden on shamelessly, especially for what is purely naked greed.
End of sermon!
Incidentally, many skeptics DO like to be taken in, but deliberately and with knowledge aforethought. It's called "the art of illusion", or more commonly, "magic!" We do appreciate a beautifully done piece of magician's illusion, especially if you can't quite work out how it is done. (That's most of the fun, actually - speculating on the mechanism, while knowing it IS an illusion.)
It also makes us extremely angry at how the memories of our loved ones have been misused. We all have lingering memories of deceased family members and friends - some lost under tragic circumstances, most sorely missed for a very long time. Skeptics are not the slightest bit immune to grief, I assure you. Their legacy is in the rememberances of those of us who live past them, and who continue to miss them. So it is all the more tragic that these precious memories should be abused and traded on and trodden on shamelessly, especially for what is purely naked greed.
End of sermon!
Incidentally, many skeptics DO like to be taken in, but deliberately and with knowledge aforethought. It's called "the art of illusion", or more commonly, "magic!" We do appreciate a beautifully done piece of magician's illusion, especially if you can't quite work out how it is done. (That's most of the fun, actually - speculating on the mechanism, while knowing it IS an illusion.)