mass shooting at So Cal bar

[jimbob]

It's a bit of an older naming convention differentiating auto-loading pistols from manual repeaters (revolvers). Obsolete conventions are common in some older-style target shooting that have a long history predating the technology. Given that fully automatic pistols are pretty rare in general, it's usually not that confusing.

I've only heard of fully automatic pistols being called machine pistols

 

[quadraginta]

Gun Jesus has a much better presentation on the magnificent Puckle Gun.

It's not a machine gun, but it is incredible for it's time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPC7KiYDshw

But machine guns aka assault rifles, are essentially banned in the USA anyway, unless you are rich and/or know someone.

So why are they being talked about in the context of gun control?

Whatever the founders of the country thought, today, machine guns are essentially banned.

You seem to be agreeing with Loesch that those were "automatic" firearms.

Is any revolver then an "automatic" firearm?

 

[Cain]

The shooter apparently made posts on Instagram during the rampage, mocking the people he says will call him insane or who will offer "thoughts and prayers".

So the shooter was basically a Democrat. Shocker.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Nitpick, because I can't help myself: Dana Loesch is a she. And incredibly stupid.

Oh, OK.

 

[Cain]

I'm with Dr. Drew Pinsky. America's problem with guns isn't a gun problem. The real problem is that psychiatrists do not have enough power.

 

[ponderingturtle]

When will "most shooters have histories of abusing women" become part of the national conversation? It's true, it's important and it could save lives.

But then you could be a good upstanding guy and lose your guns just because you get a little handsy with women now and then like the president. They let you do it as seen by how the coach backed down. The system works.

 

[ponderingturtle]

OK, so I take that last post back.

How come these were not commonly used in the Revolutionary War?

Because multiple shots are not that helpful unless one can reload them faster. That is why magazine rifles didn't catch on too quickly militarily. They let you give a burst of fire but then are no faster once the magazine is depleted. Until clips and detachable magazines became common there is not a huge military advantage to the weapons commensurate with their hugely increased price.

The Seige of Plevna showed that magazines are useful to break charges but that was in the 1870's.

Basicly having 2 single shot guns is much more volume of fire than one gun that can fire 4 times, excepting very short engagements. So the weapons were expensive but impractical oddities.

 

[a_unique_person]

OK, so I take that last post back.

How come these were not commonly used in the Revolutionary War?

They look very expensive and they aren't actual automatic weapons. The mechanism had to be operated manually. It's more like a lever rifle but slower.

 

[alfaniner]

I find it hard to believe this was only four days ago.

 

[LTC8K6]

OK, so I take that last post back.

How come these were not commonly used in the Revolutionary War?

Even if they were widely used back then, they are not machine guns, so it doesn't matter.

 

[LTC8K6]

You seem to be agreeing with Loesch that those were "automatic" firearms.

Is any revolver then an "automatic" firearm?

Nope and nope, with the one exception I posted.

Is a Gatling gun a machine gun? (no)

It's manually operated, but it fires reasonably fast.

If we attach a motor to the hand crank, is it then a machine gun? (yes)

A machine gun (automatic firearm) under US law:
"any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger."

And the critical parts of such, of course.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Really any discussion of automatic firearms prior to the widespread adoption of metallic cartridge ammunition seems a willing misrepresentation. Repeating designs prior to the use of cartridge ammunition, even exotic ones like the Puckle gun, are heavily fire-rate limited by the long reloading process of charging lose powder and ball. After the pre-loaded shots are fired, the long reloading process is similar to that of the more common single-fire rifles issued to contemporary military forces.

Dana Loesch was being disingenuous when she claims the Puckle gun is any kind of automatic weapon. It's an exotic stationary gun that uses a revolving action for repeated firing and was not adopted by any military for significant use. It is only really known now by gun enthusiasts as a historic novelty and as a disingenuous rhetorical device for NRA shills like Loesch.

The Gatling gun was the first high fire rate gun of any widespread significance and even then is not a true machine gun, being manually operated.

 

[crescent]

In discussions of mass shooting incidents and gun control, magazine capacity often comes up.

The suggestion that smaller magazine sizes may slow down a shooter, allowing people to escape, is countered by the idea that changing magazines can be done very quickly.

It may be worth noting that in this case, the shooter stopped to change magazines, and people were able to take advantage of that stoppage to escape:

A Gunman Opened Fire. This Man Acted Quickly—And Saved Dozens of Lives.

Matt Wennerstrom was at a bar with his friends when a gunman started firing. First, the 20-year-old ushered people behind a pool table. Then, as the gunman reloaded, Wennerstrom threw a barstool through a window, creating a path of escape.

Thanks to Wennerstrom, dozens of people escaped from the gunman who killed 12 inside the country music bar in Thousand Oaks, California, the Washington Post reports.

 

[TJM]

Articles I’ve read say Wennerstrom got 30 to 35 people out through the window.

That’s an awful long magazine swap.

 

[catsmate]

This is true as well. It's literally seconds even when not in a hurry: Press mag release, push in new mag, switch slide catch, done.

I was taught to keep track of shots fired so there was a round in the chamber while changing magazines, no need to rack the slide to chamber a round. Plus there's a round available if needed (barring a BAP type magazine safety).
Most factory Glock magazines need to be pulled out, they don't drop free when the catch is released.

 

[catsmate]

Is any revolver then an "automatic" firearm?

There are a few models that tap firing energy to rotate the cylinder and re-cock the hammer, in the manner of semi-automatic pistols. It would, in theory, be possible to modify them to empty the cylinder in a single burst.

 

[Hellbound]

I was taught to keep track of shots fired so there was a round in the chamber while changing magazines, no need to rack the slide to chamber a round. Plus there's a round available if needed (barring a BAP type magazine safety).
Most factory Glock magazines need to be pulled out, they don't drop free when the catch is released.

Really? Mine drops, unless I have the gun at a weird angle.

 

[TJM]

I was taught to keep track of shots fired so there was a round in the chamber while changing magazines, no need to rack the slide to chamber a round. Plus there's a round available if needed (barring a BAP type magazine safety).
Most factory Glock magazines need to be pulled out, they don't drop free when the catch is released.

Sounds like you had a Hi-Power, not a Glock.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Really? Mine drops, unless I have the gun at a weird angle.

I think early Generation 1 glocks didn't drop free, owing to their European heritage where that was common. Changes were made to magazines to make them drop free for the American market. They've been drop free for a long time now.

 

[Hellbound]

I think early Generation 1 glocks didn't drop free, owing to their European heritage where that was common. Changes were made to magazines to make them drop free for the American market. They've been drop free for a long time now.

I'll buy that Mine is a Gen 4 after all.