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Left Wing "virtue signaling"?

theprestige said:
I have no idea what any of that means.
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In Australia it is becoming very common for non-indigenous people to recite or display an Acknowledgement of Country when making a speech or putting something in public. It usually runs something like this:

"We acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of (eg.) Ngunnawal country on which we stand, and acknowledge their continuing connection to land, water and community. We pay our respects to the people, the cultures and the elders past, present and emerging."

Of course, you would replace the name of the country with the indigenous name for the region. I happen to be located in Ngunnawal country so I used that as my example. It takes about fifteen seconds and serves to show respect to the people who were here long before British colonisation.

Graham2001 is noting that an Acknowledgement has started to appear on supermarket till receipts. Which is low-hanging fruit, really.
 
arthwollipot said:
In Australia it is becoming very common for non-indigenous people to recite or display an Acknowledgement of Country when making a speech or putting something in public. It usually runs something like this:

"We acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of (eg.) Ngunnawal country on which we stand, and acknowledge their continuing connection to land, water and community. We pay our respects to the people, the cultures and the elders past, present and emerging."

Of course, you would replace the name of the country with the indigenous name for the region. I happen to be located in Ngunnawal country so I used that as my example. It takes about fifteen seconds and serves to show respect to the people who were here long before British colonisation.
Graham2001 is noting that an Acknowledgement has started to appear on supermarket till receipts. Which is low-hanging fruit, really.
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Although as the Very Bad Wizards pointed out, land acknowledgements can also sound like ****-talking "Hey, we're on your land. Give it back? No. Look, we'll print it on the supermarket receipts, guys. What more do you want?"
 
angrysoba said:
Although as the Very Bad Wizards pointed out, land acknowledgements can also sound like ****-talking "Hey, we're on your land. Give it back? No. Look, we'll print it on the supermarket receipts, guys. What more do you want?"
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It's possible, but I don't think it is usually taken in that way.

Nor is it a particularly new thing. I said an Acknowledgement of Country when I opened each day of the Australian Skeptics National Convention when I was MC in 2013 - almost ten years ago now.
 
"We want to show respect to the indigenous peoples."

"Does that mean you are giving our land back?"

"Sit down and shut the **** up."
 
Thermal said:
"We want to show respect to the indigenous peoples."

"Does that mean you are giving our land back?"

"Sit down and shut the **** up."
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If the Acknowledgement of Country were the only initiative that government and institutions were doing to redress colonisation, it would indeed be that. But as it is, it's a start. Like flying the Aboriginal flag alongside the Australian flag, it constitutes recognition of colonisation, and it's something that everyone can do, even if you're not one of the many people actively working in the field of indigenous affairs.

Is it perfect? No. The legacy of colonisation is perpetual. But it's something.
 
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arthwollipot said:
If the Acknowledgement of Country were the only initiative that government and institutions were doing to redress colonisation, it would indeed be that. But as it is, it's a start. Like flying the Aboriginal flag alongside the Australian flag, it constitutes recognition of colonisation, and it's something that everyone can do, even if you're not one of the many people actively working in the field of indigenous affairs.

Is it perfect? No. The legacy of colonisation is perpetual. But it's something.
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There's a school.of thought that a gesture is better than nothing, to be sure. But in the school of making things right, there is pretty much only one right thing to do. Which ain't going to happen, so I take the platitudes with a bit of salt.

I'm thinking of the American equivalent situation btw, not busting your chops. The unflinchingly honest thing to say is "Whitey conquered a long time ago. It ain't changing. Lets move on." Sounds callous, but it's the truth. Not right, but the truth.
 
Thermal said:
There's a school.of thought that a gesture is better than nothing, to be sure. But in the school of making things right, there is pretty much only one right thing to do. Which ain't going to happen, so I take the platitudes with a bit of salt.

I'm thinking of the American equivalent situation btw, not busting your chops. The unflinchingly honest thing to say is "Whitey conquered a long time ago. It ain't changing. Lets move on." Sounds callous, but it's the truth. Not right, but the truth.
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The problem is that moving on without redressing the wrongs of the past basically perpetuates them. Aboriginal people are poor and marginalised in many ways. "Moving on" proposes to leave them in that state.

No, something has to be done. And some things are being done. We are going to have a referendum, probably some time next year, on an Aboriginal Voice in Parliament. We're actually going to change the Australian constitution to ensure that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have direct representation in Parliament. That's something! That's important. That's progress.

So yeah, I get that to your American ears it seems like a token effort to have an Acknowledgement of Country in speeches and on websites. But it's not. The reasons why are probably not too clear to someone who isn't embedded in Australian society.
 
The recent use of the expression."virtue signalling" by Australia's richest woman, Gina Rinehart, pretty much confirms it is a meaningless buzzword that right wingers use when they are talking codswallop.
 
Graham2001 said:
Does printing a land acknowledgment statment on a supermarket till receipt count? In Australia the Coles supermarket chain has started doing this.
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That's what I was thinking of. A university in the USA has started acknowledging that their campus was built on an ancient indian burial ground land forcibly taken from the previous inhabitants. This is virtue signalling. It does nobody any good and the university is not going to start paying rent to the descendants of the dispossessed. "Aren't we good: we acknowledge we stole this land.... What do you mean 'give it back'?"
 
jeremyp said:
That's what I was thinking of. A university in the USA has started acknowledging that their campus was built on an ancient indian burial ground land forcibly taken from the previous inhabitants. This is virtue signalling. It does nobody any good and the university is not going to start paying rent to the descendants of the dispossessed. "Aren't we good: we acknowledge we stole this land.... What do you mean 'give it back'?"
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Did you type this before reading later post by arthwollipot mentioning the changes that have followed the Aussie land acknowledgment statements?
 
I'm old enough to remember when these people were called "posers". It's something that has always been around as a concept. As some have pointed out, the Gospels specifically mention it. Using a phrase like "virtue signaling" is itself an example of virtue signaling. And it says way more about the accusor than whoever they are accusing.

It's not a left or right thing. It's a human thing. Whether is pink hats with BLM t-shirts, gold crucifix necklaces with an American flag, or a Yankee hat and Cowboys jersey, you will always have people just jumping on a bandwagon because they want to belong.

That's not to say everyone wearing or displaying those things are posers or "virtue signaling". Obviously, these movements start with earnest intentions and many people still do hold them dear. Just that some folks want easy ways to look "cool" and part of a group.

So, while that suburban white lady with the BLM t-shirt doesn't actually want things like real justice reform, there are folks who are fighting and sacrificing for that sort of thing. Or just because some self-described Christian with a gold crucifix hems and haws at Mathew 19:21 (or Luke 18:22 if you prefer) doesn't mean that there is no one who truly lives by that. Gotta get the whole picture of someone. And you certainly can't assert an entire movement is "virtue signaling". Granted, what they choose as a sign of their specific movement may say something about their commitment.

Caveat: This applies to individuals. Not corporations. Any type of social awareness corporations demonstrate is almost certainly "virtue signaling".
 
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Robin said:
The recent use of the expression."virtue signalling" by Australia's richest woman, Gina Rinehart, pretty much confirms it is a meaningless buzzword that right wingers use when they are talking codswallop.
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Fairly small sample size here.

I'd suggest we should look to a significantly larger corpus of texts, instead of looking to Aussie billionaires.
 
psionl0 said:
Is "virtue signalling" just a euphemism for "lip service"?
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That is the intended implied meaning, although in actual practice it just means "stating an opinion on something", almost always an opinion the person applying the descriptor disagrees with.
 
arthwollipot said:
In Australia it is becoming very common for non-indigenous people to recite or display an Acknowledgement of Country when making a speech or putting something in public. It usually runs something like this:

"We acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians of (eg.) Ngunnawal country on which we stand, and acknowledge their continuing connection to land, water and community. We pay our respects to the people, the cultures and the elders past, present and emerging."

Of course, you would replace the name of the country with the indigenous name for the region. I happen to be located in Ngunnawal country so I used that as my example. It takes about fifteen seconds and serves to show respect to the people who were here long before British colonisation.

Graham2001 is noting that an Acknowledgement has started to appear on supermarket till receipts. Which is low-hanging fruit, really.
Click to expand...

Oh. Yeah, that's totally virtue-signaling. In the wokest, cargo-cultiest sense of the term.
 
arthwollipot said:
If the Acknowledgement of Country were the only initiative that government and institutions were doing to redress colonisation, it would indeed be that. But as it is, it's a start. Like flying the Aboriginal flag alongside the Australian flag, it constitutes recognition of colonisation, and it's something that everyone can do, even if you're not one of the many people actively working in the field of indigenous affairs.

Is it perfect? No. The legacy of colonisation is perpetual. But it's something.
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It's an empty gesture, is what it is.

If there were real, productive, transformative deeds being done, actual effective programs lifting people up and restoring their birthright, you could just point to those things and let the clear virtue of those deeds speak for itself.

You wouldn't have to resort to empty gestures just to reassure people that you care. People would know you care, because they'd see your actions and experience the caring that resulted.

Virtue signaling is the essence of slacktivism. It's making an empty gesture in lieu of doing the hard work of effecting real change. People run a flag up a flagpole and fall back on "at least it's something" like they're resting on their laurels. But really they're just flopped down on a bed of wilted lettuce. And not even the good kind of lettuce.
 
I also observe that the term is most often used as a "thought terminating cliche"--which is to say it's used to shut down the conversation, rather than respond to the substance of the point. The person isn't urging the "virtue signaler" to start walking the walk better. They don't agree with being expected to support that virtue and don't want to sound like a jerk, so they question the other person's sincerity to drag them into the same mud.
 
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Checkmite said:
That is the intended implied meaning, although in actual practice it just means "stating an opinion on something", almost always an opinion the person applying the descriptor disagrees with.
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Ok you said the same thing I did, only way more succinctly.
 
Wouldn't it be up to the indigenous people to decide if the gesture was meaningful? If they accepted that they were in Whitey World now, and it was the fault of no one alive, and well, they kind of dig the whole penicillin and power tools life...maybe they would be okay with getting the token props of respect?
 
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