Is incest always condemnable?

[Invidious]

Aren't we also confounding Nature when we plant acres and acres of only one sort of crop? In fact, the whole idea of crops is against Nature! You should have to go snuffle for roots in the damn forest like Nature intended.

 

[Inanna]

Dear Amapola
This brother & sister lost their parents at an early age,just before their puberty.The boy received some official support from the authorities as regards receiving money as pension.Some of their relatives arrived once in 6 months or a year to help them with the management of finances.In our country,people(neighbours) are too curious but helpful too although this help could irritate the boy & the girl at times.Their parents had money.The brother received a Master degree.Yes,he got a pretty good job.This is not a story which I made.They became close to one another in a house where they were of only help to one another ,may be first mentally,then physically.But I don't know whether they were completely innocent or not while being physically intimate.I presume nobody can know that.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Dear Amapola
This brother & sister lost their parents at an early age,just before their puberty.The boy received some official support from the authorities as regards receiving money as pension.Some of their relatives arrived once in 6 months or a year to help them with the management of finances.In our country,people(neighbours) are too curious but helpful too although this help could irritate the boy & the girl at times.Their parents had money.The brother received a Master degree.Yes,he got a pretty good job.This is not a story which I made.They became close to one another in a house where they were of only help to one another ,may be first mentally,then physically.But I don't know whether they were completely innocent or not while being physically intimate.I presume nobody can know that.

So which country is it that lets prepubescent children live on their own?

 

[Darth Rotor]

Langis,may I ask you,will not you be shocked if a father & daughter engage in a romantic physical relationship??But sometimes men do fall in love with women who are of the same age as their daughters,or even younger.We simply don't care & they also don't care.

Back under the bridge. I think I see what is going on here.

DR

 

[Tailgater]

Conspi,

I started thinking about the probabilities of scientifically created inbreeding. I'm wondering what those probablities are vs natural inbreeding. People tend to breed within religions, races, proximity, etc. At least up until the last half century, anything outside any of those were taboo and in some places, still are. There had to be a certain percentage of inbreeding within so many generations. The population was smaller, communities were smaller, people didn't mix outside what was similar to themselves. Could there be that much of a difference in percentage of inbreeding genes by generation distance or probability of close generation inbreeding by not knowing more than immediate family in the past and that of your example?

 

[PrincessIneffabelle]

I just love it when people rave about the superiority of Nature and the evilness of Technology ... whilst using the internet. If Nature is the desired state, you should probably be getting back to it. On foot and clothed only in "natural" materials.

 

[Inanna]

So which country is it that lets prepubescent children live on their own?

Hi pt
This incident happened & has been perturbing me,that is the fact.The name of the country is not important over here.I need not make up such a story.Life created this incident.
This incident has deeply disturbed me & it will always disturb me.This incident does not match with my ideas of intimacy between two adults.Still I don't think they committed a sin.They were the victims of the circumstances.I am even more disturbed by the cruelty of those relatives(?)who left this children to care for their own.I never said their parents were poor.Some relatives did turn up to give advice as regards money management & then left.Nature played her role in the absence of parental/elderly supervision.
I apologise if this thread has disturbed anyone.Plz See,emotional & physical support ,romance,the urge to procreate etc have different meanings in different situations.This couple's situation was uncommon,totally strange to most of us.Who knows what we would have done if we were left in such a cruel situation?I mean,we should think of the circumstances before condemning anyone for anything.
My sincere apology to all brothers & sisters,but I just could not stop myself from creating this thread as this incident has been disturbing me,rather, haunting me for long.

 

[Tailgater]

I just love it when people rave about the superiority of Nature and the evilness of Technology ... whilst using the internet. If Nature is the desired state, you should probably be getting back to it. On foot and clothed only in "natural" materials.

Yes, good thing no one here said that.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Hi pt
This incident happened & has been perturbing me,that is the fact.The name of the country is not important over here.I need not make up such a story.Life created this incident.

Nope, I don't believe you. This story is not credible, not with prepubescent kids living on their own getting government assistance.

 

[Tailgater]

Hi pt
This incident happened & has been perturbing me,that is the fact.The name of the country is not important over here.I need not make up such a story.Life created this incident.
This incident has deeply disturbed me & it will always disturb me.This incident does not match with my ideas of intimacy between two adults.Still I don't think they committed a sin.They were the victims of the circumstances.I am even more disturbed by the cruelty of those relatives(?)who left this children to care for their own.I never said their parents were poor.Some relatives did turn up to give advice as regards money management & then left.Nature played her role in the absence of parental/elderly supervision.
I apologise if this thread has disturbed anyone.Plz See,emotional & physical support ,romance,the urge to procreate etc has different meanings in different situations.This couple's situation was uncommon,totally strange to most of us.Who knows what we would have done if we were left in such a cruel situation?I mean,we should think of the circumstances before condemning anyone for anything.
My sincere apology to all brothers & sisters,but I just could not stop myself from creating this thread as this incident has been disturbing me,rather, haunting me for long.

I don't know, it kind of has that, "If you were trapped on a deserted island with your brothers' hot wife long enough, when would it be acceptable to sleep with her" feel to it. It shouldn't be acceptable as a norm, but freakier things have happened in this world.

 

[Tailgater]

Nope, I don't believe you. This story is not credible, not with prepubescent kids living on their own getting government assistance.

Cmon, it totally could have happened in neverneverland. They lived on their own, and you know Peter Pan was tapping Wendy.

 

[Inanna]

If someone does not believe me,he or she is entitled to her opinion.I respect that person as much as those who believe me. I wish all the best to all of you.

 

[skeptifem]

Are YOU serious?

yes, yes i am.

If a woman wants to have a kid and consciously doesn't want to have a man help her raise it: She needs to get over the entire idea, immediately if not sooner. That mindset makes her unfit as a mother.

HOW does it make her unfit?

anyway, its going to be tough for you to break that to all the lesbian parents out there.

Pure selfishness and arrogance - that's what it is. A woman deliberately deciding that a child will NEVER know its birth father. I'd like to be there listening to her try to explain to the kid, especially if he's a boy, why she has no use for men and thought so little of them that they rate no more than a shopping item in a catalog to her. Monstrous. Not human.

wow thats a whole bunch of assumptions that you will never be able to prove.

the fact that you think that about women who choose to be single parents says a lot more about you than it does them. its impossible for you to know how those women see men or their motovations for living their lives the way that they do. why attack a position that no one has even mentioned except for you?

That is a monstrous attitude, and nothing less. And what else is monstrous? Men jacking off into a jar, getting cash, and that constitutes their association with fatherhood. Absolutely positively monstrous. Yet modern society allows both woman and man to behave in this manner.

oh dear god! two people entering an agreement and getting exactly what they wanted??? teh horror!!1

As I indicate, in this "You Can Have It All" consumer-driven world we've devised, everything is for sale. "But it's the woman's right to have a
kiddie whenever she wants!" Thats whats been marketed to you.

hm the message I got from society in general was that women who have children outside of marriage are immoral.

What has NOT been marketed to you is the rights of the kiddie.

they market plenty of that. like how people say letting gay people get married or adopt will hurt children, or how the right to life people love to call abortion murdering babies or children. they get a lot more exposure than feminists do, thats for sure.

The deliberate elimination of a father in the upbringing of the child. We know that elimination of the father, or the mother, or both, occurs through varied happenstance. War, divorce, abandonment, kidnapping and so forth. But this is different. This is a conscious, thought-out decision to create a child and then deny that child the aspect of "father" as we know it, in the traditional social definition. As we evolved, biologically and socially, to define the parameters of fatherhood.

provide proof of your claim of this being a biological issue.

Because a good father is every bit as critical and important and vital as a good mother in the upbringing of a child. Whether that child is a girl or boy. Your attitude, however, reflects the success by which marketing has been able to minimize a man right down to a 15-second squirt.

oh yes, the main stream american culture sure loves to empower women! please.

ANYWAY, I really really fail to see how having a baby from a sperm donor 'reduces' a man to anything less than a man. It simply doesnt. and a lot of your rants boil down to nothing but strawmen- thinking you know how women think of sperm donors and attacking that position, its especially silly when no one has even implied anything of this sort except for you.

And as I mention, it weakens the gene pool. With this new reality, you could end up marrying your half-brother and I could end up marrying my half-sister and we wouldn't even know it.

i suppose you are against adoption of children for the same reason?

Nature designed a whole set of parameters to try and prevent that from happening. And we shortcut all of those results, honed over hundreds of millions of years, by getting an egg, getting some sperm, mixing 'em in a Petri dish and then implanting it in the woman's womb. Gosh, I'm so proud of us. Aren't we smart? Geez we're just so tremendously clever and smart. Screw Nature. We can do what we want.

this is an argument from tradition. its a logical fallacy.


in closing, theres almost nothing in your post that did not contain some sort of fallacy.

 

[skeptifem]

Yup. It's getting sad. I'm waiting to see the womb in bag. Just jerk off in this bag, add the vito-mix twice a day, keep it on the heat pad (provided at no extra charge), and in nine months you can be a daddy without having to deal with a woman who wants visitation or child support. Then mothers will cry, "a MAN can't do that, how can a child be raised with no mother?!", and they would be right too.

that is all.

 

[skeptifem]

I just love it when people rave about the superiority of Nature and the evilness of Technology ... whilst using the internet. If Nature is the desired state, you should probably be getting back to it. On foot and clothed only in "natural" materials.

haahahaha! yeah i think the same thing when i see this sort of stuff.

 

[skeptifem]

Actually I'm concerned in a lot of areas as to the impact of our utilization of technology. Across the board. What we've done is establish this mindset that if we can think of it from a technological point of view, then we should do it. We tend to not see, or minimize, or ignore, the deeper ramifications. We forget that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. We didn't think we could affect this planet's weather by large-scale human activity. We can. We didn't think we could marry our half-brother or half-sister and not even know it. We can. We didn't think we could release a poisonous metal into the atmosphere, and then accumulate that same metal to dangerous levels in our bodies. We are doing that now.

please, inform me what horrible ramifications occured after of the invention of modern anesthesia. I am just dying to hear this one.

this sounds an awful lot like woo to me. "because some advances in technology have resulted in problems=ALL advances in technology result in problems" is not very sound logic.

 

[Z]

Screw nature. Either we'll become scientifically advanced enough to do what we please no matter what, or we'll become extinct. Luckily, all that's part of nature, too.

Nature makes bacteria; we make antibacterial products. So nature makes stronger bacteria. Well, that puts the ball in our court - let's make stronger antibacterial products. Or, better still, let's genetically engineer ourself to be immune to all bacteria.

We put mercury in our water and our air and our soil? Fine. Let's come up with ways to make ourselves immune to mercury.

That's the power of science - to overcome and defeat Nature at every turn. And if Nature proves stronger, then so be it. No race lasts forever - why should we be different?

 

[Piscivore]

And as I mention, it weakens the gene pool. With this new reality, you could end up marrying your half-brother and I could end up marrying my half-sister and we wouldn't even know it.

Now wait a minute- the way I figure it half-sibs won't have any more chance of having genes from the same parent than first cousins, and while some societies call that taboo it is certainly not universal. I do not know that it is even common. And even if ever single child in the next generation were to be born thusly the odds would be very small one would draw a half-sib.

And arguing that there are few sperm donors would be just as well solved by increasing the donor pool than by eliminating this procedure altogether, becuase there is a chance of breeding with a half-sib even the "natural" way.

No, I don't buy this impending genetic apocalypse you are selling. I'm going to keep working on the doomsday virus, thanks.

 

[skeptifem]

Now wait a minute- the way I figure it half-sibs won't have any more chance of having genes from the same parent than first cousins, and while some societies call that taboo it is certainly not universal. I do not know that it is even common. And even if ever single child in the next generation were to be born thusly the odds would be very small one would draw a half-sib.

on this page he says adoption is ok though? thats what i dont get.

 

[Paulhoff]

Some people are fixated on the fallacy that cousin couples pose an intolerable risk to their offspring. However it is likely that we are all descendants of cousin marriages. Before civil laws banning cousin marriages, it was preferable to marry a cousin in some communities as it is to this day in many countries. The notion “why marry a stranger" is just as prevalent in many countries as the cousin marriage taboo in America today.

http://www.cousincouples.com/info/facts.shtml

Paul