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General Israel/Palestine discussion thread

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bikerdruid said:
that was a war.....israel is not at war with hamas.
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Yes, actually they are.

So you think that Hamas, the group who in their charter calls for the annihilation of Jews, are "freedom fighters". At least we know where you stand.
 
HoverBoarder said:
Maybe not to you, but he is definitely a freedom fighter to many other people. Hitler was, and still is worshipped by a large number of people who viewed/view Hitler in a very positive light and would wholeheartedly disagree with your description of him.

Afterall, one man's genocidal maniac is another man's freedom fighter and hero.

The same argument could be made for Stalin, or Idi Aman, or Saddam Hussein, or Kim II Sung, or Pol Pot, or Mao-Ze-Dong. All of these people engaged in pointless massive killings, but are still worshipped and revered by many people.

Clearly there is a difference in opinion with the rest of the world.
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How may people currently worship and revere:

1) Hitler

2) Stalin

3) Idi Amin

4) Saddam Hussein

5) Kim II Sung

6) Pol Pot

7) Mao-Ze-Dong

8) Richard Nixon

?
 
So Greece has offered to deliver the humanitarian aid for the current round of activists so that the humanitarian aid can get to the people of Gaza. The Palestinians and the activists refused the offer. So it's nice to see that they finally admit that they have no intent on bringing humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza and only use it as a ploy. Maybe now they will stop bringing humanitarian aid at all since it has nothing to do with their goal which is simply to run naval blockades.

After all the amount of humanitarian aid the last flotilla brought was only a fraction of the humanitarian aid that Israel ships to Gaza in a single day. So again, let's stop the charade that helping Gaza has anything to do with these flotillas.
 
WildCat said:
A simple question: if the party of a genocidal anti-semitic terrorist group was running for office in Australia would you consider voting for them if you liked their economic policy?
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can I ask if the PA has been officially exonerated of a desire to eliminate Israel by you guys?? As I see it...by the descriptions I read about the "staged plan" and all that then Palestinians don't have a choice of voting for someone that does not have plans to do the job on Israel....


and another quick question....who would you choose to run America, Ronald Mcdonald or the cookie monster?

be carefull, we will judge a lot of things about you based on your selection.
 
JihadJane said:
How may people currently worship and revere:

1) Hitler

2) Stalin

3) Idi Amin

4) Saddam Hussein

5) Kim II Sung

6) Pol Pot

7) Mao-Ze-Dong

8) Richard Nixon

?
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George Galloway.

Why did you add the qualifier "currently"? All these people were revered as saviours of humanity by millions.
 
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JihadJane said:
How may people currently worship and revere:

1) Hitler

2) Stalin

3) Idi Amin

4) Saddam Hussein

5) Kim II Sung

6) Pol Pot

7) Mao-Ze-Dong

8) Richard Nixon

?
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But they didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the world's been turning.
 
bikerdruid said:
my perspective on the matter is irrelevant.
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It's relevant to your contribution to this thread.

however, since gazans and other palestinians view them as freedom fighters, they cannot be ignored in serious talks of peace.
that is where the matter is relevant.
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Nobody's talking about ignoring them. However, since Israelis and others view them as terrorists, their relevance in talks of peace can be summed up as follows: "first, kill all the terrorists".

So there you have it: The topic is talks of peace between Israel and Palestine. The question is whether Hamas are terrorists or freedom fighters. Your opinion is requested: How do you think talks of peace should proceed?

Your opinion is irrelevant? Then stop posting in this thread. Your opinion is relevant? Then kindly answer the question: Do you view Hamas as terrorists or freedom fighters?
 
bikerdruid said:
not a terrorist at all, but a humanitarian.
this is silly.
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A humanitarian? Then tell us why when Greece offered to deliver the humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza did the people on the boat refuse the offer?

I wish people would stop insulting our intelligence by trying to claim these flotillas have anything to do with humanitarian issues. They do not. The amount of humanitarian aid brought by the last flotilla was a fraction of what Israel ships in in a single day. And it was expired medical supplies.

Why can't these people be honest and just admit that they are only there to taunt a naval blockade without being forced to admit it when other options to provide humanitarian assistance are offered?
 
The Fool said:
can I ask if the PA has been officially exonerated of a desire to eliminate Israel by you guys?? As I see it...by the descriptions I read about the "staged plan" and all that then Palestinians don't have a choice of voting for someone that does not have plans to do the job on Israel....
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:confused:
 
theprestige said:
It's relevant to your contribution to this thread.



Nobody's talking about ignoring them. However, since Israelis and others view them as terrorists, their relevance in talks of peace can be summed up as follows: "first, kill all the terrorists".

So there you have it: The topic is talks of peace between Israel and Palestine. The question is whether Hamas are terrorists or freedom fighters. Your opinion is requested: How do you think talks of peace should proceed?

Your opinion is irrelevant? Then stop posting in this thread. Your opinion is relevant? Then kindly answer the question: Do you view Hamas as terrorists or freedom fighters?
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this thread is only tangentially about hamas.
my opinion about the status of hams is irrelevant, however, if you are really dying to know, yes, i view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people.
how do you suppose the american revolutionaries would have been considered by the british, if things had gone differently in 1776?
would they have been celebrated as freedom fighters or hung as traitors?
and, sir...i will post in any thread i damn well choose.
 
bikerdruid said:
if you are really dying to know, yes, i view hamas as an organization fighting for the freedom of its people.
how do you suppose the american revolutionaries would have been considered by the british, if things had gone differently in 1776?
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I'd consider them pretty evil if their stated goal was to kill every last anglo on the planet. Luckily, they did not state that, much less put it in their charter.

Good to know you support a group bent on genocide against the Jews. At least we all know where you stand now.
 
Did the American revolutionaries target almost strictly civilians? Did the American revolutionaries use their citizens as human shields? Did the American revolutionaries share a piece of land with the British or did they move off to find their own land? Did the American Revolutionaries teach their kids that the British were evil and should be slaughtered? Did the American revolutionaries use hospitals and schools to launch attacks from?

The American revolutionaries were fighting for their independence. Hamas is not. The Palestinians could have their independence any time they want. Israel would be happy to help them. Unfortunately Hamas and their charter calling for the extermination of Israel are standing in the way. So saying they are fighting for freedom is a bit ironic when the reason Palestinians live such a confined life is because of organizations like Hamas.
 
JihadJane said:
How may people currently worship and revere:

1) Hitler
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A whole lot of people all around the world.

JihadJane said:
2) Stalin
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A whole lot of people in Russia, and some very misguided communists around the world

JihadJane said:
3) Idi Amin
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A number of people in Uganda still do.

JihadJane said:
4) Saddam Hussein
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A whole bunch in Iraq, Syria, and a lot of other places across the world.

JihadJane said:
5) Kim II Sung
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a WHOLE bunch of people. He is still forcefully worshipped like a cult hero in North Korea, and there's no better way to celebrate a brutal mass murderer than having a State mandated Birthday party every year in his honor.

JihadJane said:
6) Pol Pot
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Quite a lot of people. A lot of people still pray to Pol Pot for good luck and good fortune, or for good health and good luck. Either way, it's good luck all around for those who worship that mass murderer.

JihadJane said:
7) Mao-Ze-Dong
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Now this guy takes the cake. Mostly because there 'Aint no Party like the Communist Party,' and the CC Party don't stop! Mao is still worshiped as a cult hero, and you can even pay $23 to re-enact being a Red Guard out killing members of the KMT back in the good-old-days. It's just a small enterprise that earned more than a Billion dollars last year alone amongst a sea of Mao based tourism.

Sounds like great fun! You get to pay a bunch of money to worship a guy who went out a killed millions of people who had money to spend on things they didn't need to...

Now granted many of the people who have the money to pay for that type of mass murderer worshipping tourism would be the same people that Mao would have killed back in his day, but don't dare criticize them though, that would get you some serious jail time.


JihadJane said:
8) Richard Nixon
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Not really that many. How did he get on the list?

Must be your 'blame everything on the West, no matter what the cause, reason, or logic is because it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside strategy.'

Pardon me if I want to seriously look at the world around me and find realistic solutions to our problems instead of just making 'Aljazeera level' the-West-is-bad-no-matter-what blanket statements for anything and everything that happens in the world.
 
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Abdul Alhazred said:
Update:
Israel accepts Greek offer to transport flotilla’s aid to Gaza; ships due to depart Monday
Haaretz

So. The Israeli authorities are OK with the actual aid goods moving in, minus the Death to Israel terrorist resupply humans shield useless idiots.

Crisis averted without having to kill anybody. :)
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Sure Israel did, but the Flotilla has said that they would never accept that type of radical peaceful and non-violent sollution.

That goes against the whole point of the Flotilla!!


HoverBoarder said:
Greece offered to transfer the goods to Gaza instead, but that was never the point of the flotilla. The point of the flotilla was to obtain media coverage for the plight of the Gazans who have been suffering under intense Hamas and Israeli oppression, but the flotilla only focuses on Israel, and ignores the serious damage to the Gazan people from Hamas.

Gazans would not have nearly as much trouble as they do now if it were not for Hamas. There absolutely should be more people working to better the lives of the people living in Gaza, but blaming all of their problems on Israel, and engaging in dangerous provocative acts like trying to break a Naval blockade for media coverage doesn't actually help Gaza.

If they really want to help, they should put the same intensity towards advocating for both sides to get serious about peace.
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WildCat said:
...who found that a platform of "kill the Jews" gets them a lot of votes among "peace-loving Palestinians".

"Peace", of course, defined in the Hamas Charter as "no more Jews".
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and a platform of "No palestinian state under any circumstances" gets Likid a lot of votes among "peace-Loving Israelis"

"peace", of course, defined in the Likud Charter as "Palestinians remain stateless forever"
 
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