General Israel/Palestine discussion thread - Part 4

[NatalieSalat]

Sounds like Israel maybe shouldn't have flattened the buildings, destroyed the hospitals, killed men, women and children with bombs and bullets and starvation, destroyed farms and water sources, and murdered journalists and aid workers in a collective punishment that was massively disproportionate to the crime.

disproportionality under the Rules of War is about the proportionality of the threat not the casualty numbers or anything else.

And according to this ridiculous leftist position, German, Japanese and Italian infrastructure should have been left intact.

 

[NatalieSalat]

And after reading the left wingers here, i conclude that their idol Chomsky's stroke shows the universe may deliver karma.

 

[arthwollipot]

And according to this ridiculous leftist position, German, Japanese and Italian infrastructure should have been left intact.

Certainly if the rules of war were during WW2 what they are today, all sides would have been committing massive war crimes.

 

[NatalieSalat]

Certainly if the rules of war were during WW2 what they are today, all sides would have been committing massive war crimes.

Yeah -- but then and now, keeping the moral high ground is nothing when facing opponents who know to exploit it.

 

[Planigale]

it's secular, just Jewish-majority.

Unlike the Islamic world, you are not made to suffer if you oppose Islam - or if you say you never believed in it and/or want to leave it.

I have no problem in believing that in Israel you are not made to suffer if you oppose Islam. However there is no doubt that Israeli law discriminates on basis of religion, a Jew who converts to another religion loses the right to return. Palestinians who have grandparents who were residents of israel do not have a right to return. Marriage is determined by religion and mixed marriages not allowed.

So not secular and not liberal.

 

[arthwollipot]

Yeah -- but then and now, keeping the moral high ground is nothing when facing opponents who know to exploit it.

You think you still have the moral high ground?

 

[NatalieSalat]

Yeah -- because the cause *you* support has led to the worst murders of Jews since Adolf Hitler. And that's "just" October 7th.

If anyone thinks that the Israeli electorate will tolerate a Palestinian state on their borders, they are delusional.

 

[webfusion]

arthwollipot, Israel maintains both the 'moral' high-ground, as well as the actual high-ground strategically.

IDF warns Hezbollah buildup may force preemptive move as ground raids push deeper into Lebanon

Senior officers say the almost daily offensive activity by Northern Command and the Air Force in recent months has not stopped Hezbollah’s military buildup, especially in villages farther from the border

www.ynetnews.com

and

Khan Yunis: IDF eliminates three terrorists following breach of security zone

IDF forces operating in Khan Yunis open fire on three terrorists who approached their position in violation of the ceasefire, posing an immediate threat.

www.israelnationalnews.com

(Note: one of the three remaining captive bodies has been recovered in Gaza; identification is to be made public soon.)

 

[NatalieSalat]

When it comes to two people who may have never existed, Jesus comes across a lot better than the Arabian warlord.

 

[arthwollipot]

Yeah -- because the cause *you* support has led to the worst murders of Jews since Adolf Hitler. And that's "just" October 7th.

Please tell me what the cause is that *I* support.

arthwollipot, Israel maintains both the 'moral' high-ground, as well as the actual high-ground strategically.

 

[webfusion]

I noted that UNRWA was 'toast' -- perhaps my view is incorrect, as this story points out, regarding Gaza-based UNRWA rehabilitation.

Unwelcome in Israel: UNRWA rebuilds in Gaza

UNRWA has resumed operating schools for 300,000 students, seven clinics, and 35 service points treating 15,000 Gazans daily.

www.israelnationalnews.com

 

[NatalieSalat]

Please tell me what the cause is that *I* support.

View attachment 66420

The Palestinian one?

 

[NatalieSalat]

The Palestinian people have been ruined by their "representees" from Arafat to Abbas to Hamas and co.

 

[arthwollipot]

The Palestinian one?

And what is that?

 

[NatalieSalat]

Also most people are not activists so treating activists of marginalized groups in the West as actual representatives of that group -- doesn't make much sense.

 

[webfusion]

I knew this would happen. HAMAS blames Israel for the rain.

Heavy rain floods Gaza Strip - Hamas blames Israel

Hamas spokesman Hazem Qassem claims Gazans are 'drowning in their tents' after rain and accuses Israel of causing a humanitarian crisis, renewing Hamas’s repeated weather-based propaganda narrative.

www.israelnationalnews.com

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Your point being that the terrorist Settlers are actual Representatives of Israel?

 

[Jedi]

The problem is that you are de facto defining every man, woman, and child in Gaza as a "maniac".


Blasting buildings to rubble in order to press forward isn't exactly subtle, is it, though? What are they going to study in future military tactics classes? "Building in way? Blast it to dust. Building not in way any more." Oh, that building is full of civilians? Doesn't matter. Blast it to dust. It's a hospital? Blast it to dust. It's an aid station? Blast it to dust.

Not exactly Clausewitz, is it?

And by the way, don't think I'm going to ignore your "tens of thousands of losses to the enemy" statement. We have demonstrated previously that the vast majority of those losses have not been enemy combatants. The IDF takes the idea of "collateral damage" and says "please sir can I have some more?"


It is not. Israel has never had any intention of holding to a ceasefire. Not when there are more civilians to kill.

Gaza hospitals running out of supplies as Israeli airstrikes continue, medics say

‘Severe lack’ in territory where Israeli strikes have killed more than 50 people and injured over 100 in recent days

www.theguardian.com

90% of gaza destroyed. 3% of gazans killed (using hamas' inflated numbers).

In actual genocides:
rwanda: 82%+ tutsi's killed
armenia: 60%+ armenians killed
holocaust: 60%+ jews killed (90% in poland and baltic states)

and half of the 70k are estimated to be hamas. so...
1.5% killed when 90% of gaza destroyed?

it's quite obvious that israel is trying to NOT harm civilians. and it's not a genocide.
yes, this is one of the lowest (if not the lowest) civilian to combatant ratios in history.
and it will be studied for years...

 

[arthwollipot]

I knew this would happen. HAMAS blames Israel for the rain.

They can blame Israel for smashing all of the drainage infrastructure to rubble so that the rain has nowhere to go but flood what remains of the streets, but the Religious Zionists at Arutz Sheva won't bother mentioning that.

 

[theprestige]

Can you name all of the previous Arab-Islamic failed states?

Literally all of them?