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Merged Freemen and False Moral Equivalence

arayder

Illuminator
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
3,402
Freemen and their gurus so often try to draw false comparisons between two phenomena which are not morally equivalent. Freemen and their gurus use the fallacy of moral equivalence to denigrate judges, cops and courts by claiming that society laws are akin to a reprehensible practice.

Using this cheap debate trick one might decry the temporary detention of asylum seekers by claiming that refugee facilities are nothing more than concentration camps and like concentration camps used by the Nazis are designed to break the will of the inmates while planning their eventual murders.

This sweeping claim of aggregate moral equivalence is a mere rhetorical device employing the fallacy of false analogy.

Likewise, freemen gurus tell us that when police ask individuals questions it is unwanted “intercourse” akin to rape.

When a judge demands that a freeman remove his hat in court, freeman polemists tell us the demand is akin to requiring them to disrobe.

Routine traffic stops are cast as unlawful imprisonments.

This high school debate trick has become so popular in the subculture that freemen video their traffic stops and claim they are being menaced, even assaulted when the police try to shout to them through rolled up car windows. Likewise, videos of freemen being told to leave their video cameras outside a court room are said to be documentation of outright theft by the courts.

Those of you who frequent this forum are well familiar with the freeman guru’s “whataboutism” debate tricks and can probably cite several more examples.
 
Yes, yes, Freemen are idiots. Good point.

But they are also idiots past their sell-by date. I'm really not sure why you're posting this at present. The Freeman movement has had no successes, many defeats and has, far as I can tell, lost the little credibility it had.

Surely, there are more interesting conspiracies out there?
 
Yes, yes, Freemen are idiots. Good point.

But they are also idiots past their sell-by date. I'm really not sure why you're posting this at present. The Freeman movement has had no successes, many defeats and has, far as I can tell, lost the little credibility it had.

You must be joking. It's epidemic in the UK. Practically every self-entitled idiot in the country, when challenged for their invariably anti-social or illegal behaviour, adopts the pompous, hysterical ineptitude of the freemen even if they explicitly don't use the term.
 
Yes, yes, Freemen are idiots. Good point.

But they are also idiots past their sell-by date. I'm really not sure why you're posting this at present. The Freeman movement has had no successes, many defeats and has, far as I can tell, lost the little credibility it had.

Surely, there are more interesting conspiracies out there?

You must be joking. It's epidemic in the UK. Practically every self-entitled idiot in the country, when challenged for their invariably anti-social or illegal behaviour, adopts the pompous, hysterical ineptitude of the freemen even if they explicitly don't use the term.

phiwum makes a good point about some freemen. I like the "sell-by-date" line.

The problem is that the use of false moral equivalences has spread to the farthest reaches of the world of woo. Consequently it seems every freeman-lite key board warrior in the world is claiming that his latest traffic ticket or tax bill is an attempt to throw the Bill of Rights and the Magna Carta into the trash bin.
 
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Seems to be basically the same but the Sovereign Citizen stuff is more rooted in tax evasion and racism where the freemen seem more about, "your laws don't apply to me mannnnnnn"
 
Seems to be basically the same but the Sovereign Citizen stuff is more rooted in tax evasion and racism where the freemen seem more about, "your laws don't apply to me mannnnnnn"

Also, sov-cits seem to be mostly American, whereas FOTL's seem to be more in the UK and Canada, though there are certainly some Americans who identify as FOTL.
 
Also, sov-cits seem to be mostly American, whereas FOTL's seem to be more in the UK and Canada, though there are certainly some Americans who identify as FOTL.


It seems to have started with the sov-cits in the USA, then moved into Canada, then the UK, and changed to FOTL in the move to Canada. The FOTLers still tend to refer to US laws (and law dictionaries) though.
 
Ok, I hadn't managed to find this. Sounds like the "sovereign citizen" nonsense.

About the only difference is in the labeling.

There have been a number of threads about the Freeman loons in the Conspriacy section;they are sort of a standard entertainment around here.
 
I can't say enough how bemused I am by their arguments. The very technical and legalistic approach explaining why the law doesn't apply to them. Its a marvel and as noted, solipsism.
 
I can't say enough how bemused I am by their arguments. The very technical and legalistic approach explaining why the law doesn't apply to them. Its a marvel and as noted, solipsism.

The part they never get is that, by removing themselves from the system, they also lose all protections the system grants. It's as if they want to have the status of a child, or a dog. OK, you aren't subject to contract law... but now there's no reason not to take all your stuff and lock you in a kennel for my amusement.

Status comes with both privileges and obligations. They want the one without the other.
 
I can't say enough how bemused I am by their arguments. The very technical and legalistic approach explaining why the law doesn't apply to them. Its a marvel and as noted, solipsism.

I don't want to belabor the point but every argument made by freemen and sovcits leads to erroneous conclusion that their rights are being terribly violated.

They take the moral equivalence ruse into the physical by claiming that they are being assaulted when a cop puts a hand on them or that cops at their door with a warrant are stealing their home.

The charade is so engrained in the subculture that it seems freemen have a competition going to see who can do the best youtube stunt fall after being brushed by a police officer.
 
I can't say enough how bemused I am by their arguments. The very technical and legalistic approach explaining why the law doesn't apply to them. Its a marvel and as noted, solipsism.

And the ultimate proof of that old saying 'A man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client".
 
I can't say enough how bemused I am by their arguments. The very technical and legalistic approach explaining why the law doesn't apply to them. Its a marvel and as noted, solipsism.

A lot of them also have equally bizarre arguments for why they don't actually have to pay their debts, or nonsensical ways to nullify their debts without actually paying them. It's sort of a pseudointellectual version of a two year old stamping his feat and hollering, "I don't have to do anything I don't want to and you can't make me!".

There are also an amazing number of them who live off of some sort of public assistance, from the very government that they deny has the authority to enforce laws or collect taxes from them.
 
I also find it inexplicable how most of them seem to appropriate some bizarre parody of Olde English when they are blustering about their rights and their uber-pedantic self entitlements. "Sir! I will have you know that looking at my face in an authoritative manner is an assault against the person contrary to the Queen's Law of the Land in this year of 2017 and I am compelled to hereby inform you that I require you to arrest yourself forthwith under Section 3.1 subsection 13a of the Asshattery Act 1729!"
 
The part they never get is that, by removing themselves from the system, they also lose all protections the system grants. It's as if they want to have the status of a child, or a dog. OK, you aren't subject to contract law... but now there's no reason not to take all your stuff and lock you in a kennel for my amusement.

Status comes with both privileges and obligations. They want the one without the other.


As has been noted before, being outlawed used to be a punishment.
 
I also find it inexplicable how most of them seem to appropriate some bizarre parody of Olde English when they are blustering about their rights and their uber-pedantic self entitlements. "Sir! I will have you know that looking at my face in an authoritative manner is an assault against the person contrary to the Queen's Law of the Land in this year of 2017 and I am compelled to hereby inform you that I require you to arrest yourself forthwith under Section 3.1 subsection 13a of the Asshattery Act 1729!"

But you forgot (at least in the US) the biggie!
ADMIRALTY LAW!
 

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