Forgiven for what, eactly?

[TimCallahan]

On another thread (Mohammed now the most popular boy's name in England), DOC responded to a comment by Hokulele that it was too bad God hadn't learned to turn the other cheek, with the following:

If you ask for forgiveness and are sincere he will.

So, here's what I'd like to know: For what , exactly, are we supposed to be asking forgiveness? Original sin (that we didn't commit)? Not being perfect, when we are supposedly made the way we are by the God who has to forgive us for being what we are?

Or are we all guilty of grievous sins and acts of utter depravity that we are too dishonest to admit?

 

[Rincewind]

Acts of utter depravity?

Where do I sign up?

 

[Hellbound]

Well, see, God's a radical free market capitalist. See, it's not his fault he sold us shoddy goods (i.e.-iomperfect and defective souls). That's our fault as a buyer for not doing due diligence. Thus, if we want to upgrade to the premium model, we have to pay.

At least, that's how I read it.

 

[Bishadi]

On another thread (Mohammed now the most popular boy's name in England), DOC responded to a comment by Hokulele that it was too bad God hadn't learned to turn the other cheek, with the following:

i say, if you are alive right now, god has forgiven. (which ever one you like)

If you ask for forgiveness and are sincere he will.

who you relying on?

Mother nature is here providing. You breath, you eat, you are of 'it'...... So what or who you are asking from, is existence itself. Then 'we the people' are all a part of it.

So, here's what I'd like to know: For what , exactly, are we supposed to be asking forgiveness? Original sin (that we didn't commit)? Not being perfect, when we are supposedly made the way we are by the God who has to forgive us for being what we are?

Some say, ask god.... i dunno why. You and i know right n wrong by how we feel when we do it. (mostly) It is the guise of priority that enables a wrong to be done with no thought of responsibility.

To forgive is the dividend part as then when YOU are done wrong, YOU dont allow that action to live into your next. ie... if your car is broken into, do you lock it next time?

Asking for forgiveness is observing what YOU did and changing YOUR action in responsible awareness. ie.... to follow the basic rule of 'do unto others as you would have them done unto you' is how 'equality' can be known to exists in a comprehensible way.

Or are we all guilty of grievous sins and acts of utter depravity that we are too dishonest to admit?

that one is hugenormous. ie... the invisible hand causes far more damage without virtue, than any single moster ever to exist. Ever hear the phrase "business has no conscious". It is an understanding that conflicts empathy of human beings. I will mention, that i are one 2. Sad but true!

 

[Hokulele]

On another thread (Mohammed now the most popular boy's name in England), DOC responded to a comment by Hokulele that it was too bad God hadn't learned to turn the other cheek, with the following:

If you ask for forgiveness and are sincere he will.

So, here's what I'd like to know: For what , exactly, are we supposed to be asking forgiveness? Original sin (that we didn't commit)? Not being perfect, when we are supposedly made the way we are by the God who has to forgive us for being what we are?

Or are we all guilty of grievous sins and acts of utter depravity that we are too dishonest to admit?

My guess is that I would need to ask forgiveness for not believing in him. Which makes asking him for forgiveness a bit, well, difficult.

 

[Aitch]

My guess is that I would need to ask forgiveness for not believing in him. Which makes asking him for forgiveness a bit, well, difficult.

Isn't that a bit like the old 'soldier's prayer'? IE Oh God, if there is a God, please save my soul, if I have a soul.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Every free moral agent on Earth has willfully committed an evil act, in disobedience to God's will and our responsibilities to God.
That sin separates us from God. We must seek forgiveness to reconnect with God.

 

[I Ratant]

Acts of utter depravity?

Where do I sign up?

.
Acting utterly depraved is a venial sin.
BEING utterly depraved, now there's a SIN!

 

[I Ratant]

Every free moral agent on Earth has willfully committed an evil act, in disobedience to God's will and our responsibilities to God.
That sin separates us from God. We must seek forgiveness to reconnect with God.

.
Even the little bitty babys pulled from the womb.
GUILTY!
In a mere seven (7) years they might reach the age of reason, and be able to understand and ask forgiveness.... for being born.

 

[AvalonXQ]

.
Even the little bitty babys pulled from the womb.
GUILTY!

No. Only free moral agents. Not infants.

 

[sadhatter]

Every free moral agent on Earth has willfully committed an evil act, in disobedience to God's will and our responsibilities to God.
That sin separates us from God. We must seek forgiveness to reconnect with God.

Seeing as god is omnipotent, couldn't he just get rid of the concept of sin? Or hell, sin itself? Seems more of a loving option than condemning people to eternal torture, or nonexistance.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I've broken all the Commandents at least once. Some hundreds of times.

Hey, God, forgive me! Or I'll break your face!

 

[AvalonXQ]

Seeing as god is omnipotent, couldn't he just get rid of the concept of sin? Or hell, sin itself? Seems more of a loving option than condemning people to eternal torture, or nonexistance.

Sin is wrapped up in free will, and the ability to make moral choices. In the absence of moral choice, there is no value in moral goodness.
You can argue that it's wrong for God to allow the existence of genuinely free moral agents, but I would disagree.

 

[D'rok]

Every free moral agent on Earth has willfully committed an evil act, in disobedience to God's will and our responsibilities to God.
That sin separates us from God. We must seek forgiveness to reconnect with God.

What is god's will? Vote Repbulican? Save the whales? Don't eat shrimp? Kill all the Benjaminites?

It's so hard to tell.

 

[sadhatter]

No. Only free moral agents. Not infants.

So uh, at what age does one gain this responsibility? And where in the bible have you found this information?

 

[Dr. Keith]

Sin is wrapped up in free will, and the ability to make moral choices. In the absence of moral choice, there is no value in moral goodness.
You can argue that it's wrong for God to allow the existence of genuinely free moral agents, but I would disagree.

So, in Heaven will you have sin or free will?

 

[Resume]

Sin is wrapped up in free will, and the ability to make moral choices. In the absence of moral choice, there is no value in moral goodness.
You can argue that it's wrong for God to allow the existence of genuinely free moral agents, but I would disagree.

No such thing as sin. However, it is immoral to try and sell this ******** to children, to make them feel guilty over perfectly normal actions like, I dunno, masturbation.

 

[sadhatter]

Sin is wrapped up in free will, and the ability to make moral choices. In the absence of moral choice, there is no value in moral goodness.
You can argue that it's wrong for God to allow the existence of genuinely free moral agents, but I would disagree.

But he is god, he could change the rules to make it so sin is not wrapped up in free will.

He is god you know, omnipotent and all that. If he wanted to he could demand the true scottsman unwrap sin from free will , with a squared circle, during the 33rd day of September , while making the sound of a tree falling in the woods with no one around to hear it.

 

[MG1962]

Not being perfect, when we are supposedly made the way we are by the God who has to forgive us for being what we are?

Invoking the all care and no responsibility clause huh

 

[AvalonXQ]

Hey, lots of replies!

So uh, at what age does one gain this responsibility? And where in the bible have you found this information?

I don't know. But I know that our sin is based on our own actions, not the actions of others. Original Sin is not Biblical.

So, in Heaven will you have sin or free will?

I don't know. The Biblical understanding of the afterlife is extremely sketchy.

No such thing as sin. However, it is immoral to try and sell this ******** to children, to make them feel guilty over perfectly normal actions like, I dunno, masturbation.

Masturbation isn't a sin.

But he is god, he could change the rules to make it so sin is not wrapped up in free will.

He is god you know, omnipotent and all that. If he wanted to he could demand the true scottsman unwrap sin from free will , with a squared circle, during the 33rd day of September , while making the sound of a tree falling in the woods with no one around to hear it.

Not in this universe, He could not.
What the deal would be in some other universe, we don't know. It's not the one we're in.
But assuming that you can speculate on the nature of a universe different from this one, when we don't even begin to have any basis to render such conclusions, seems presumptuous to me.
Then whole idea that "God is omnipotent; he could have done things differently" doesn't sit with me -- because I'm confident that he couldn't have done things differently without changing the value of something valuable in the current system, and I have no idea what the implications of that are. Neither do you.