E.U. tells USA what it wants

[Alferd_Packer]

Wait, you guys have it all wrong. The telephone was invented by Don Ameche.

 

[WildCat]

Likewise, where did I say that?

Lads, the point is simply this. The poster I quoted complained that the EU might want to treat the US as a pariah state if it didn't do what the EU wanted. Now come on, think about why I might find this ironic and more than a little amusing given what we know about US foreign policy in the past? Where has the US taken absolutely huge umbrage at other countries who didn't agree with them, and what have they done to make life difficult for them?

I see what you're saying. But I don't see the EU countries doing anything beyond hand-wringing over the US.

Because deep down inside you love us... or at least our money.

 

[Architect]

So how about, say, we announce that anyone in our country who does trade with you has committed a criminal offence and...just floating an idea here.....we also make it illegal for nationals of third party countries to do likewise?

Or, say, we go to a country which supported our independence, with a long and distinguished past, which - when it perhaps points out that our current policies are a little ill advised - is suddenly, I dunno, ridiculed in the press and by officials?

Or, hmm, let's look at trade sanctions......

 

[WildCat]

So how about, say, we announce that anyone in our country who does trade with you has committed a criminal offence and...just floating an idea here.....we also make it illegal for nationals of third party countries to do likewise?

Go for it.

Or, say, we go to a country which supported our independence, with a long and distinguished past, which - when it perhaps points out that our current policies are a little ill advised - is suddenly, I dunno, ridiculed in the press and by officials?

Would this be the same country who, along with the country we became independent of, nearly entered our civil war on the side of the Confederacy because they liked the cotton supplied by slave labor? And where was the CSS Alabama built?

Or, hmm, let's look at trade sanctions......

I'm sure Ford and GM would be devastated if the EU cut off auto exports to the US...

 

[Architect]

I was thinking more of how the US deployed them against others, actually....

 

[Darth Rotor]

Likewise, where did I say that?

Lads, the point is simply this. The poster I quoted complained that the EU might want to treat the US as a pariah state if it didn't do what the EU wanted. Now come on, think about why I might find this ironic and more than a little amusing given what we know about US foreign policy in the past? Where has the US taken absolutely huge umbrage at other countries who didn't agree with them, and what have they done to make life difficult for them?

Well, if we are going on and on about the past, what say we discuss the British Policies of the era of mercantilism, or the Continental System Bonaparte used to get back at the Brits.

I fully expect the EU and US to do as usual, work a deal, another deal, another deal, and so on.

What benefit is it to EU to treat the US as the US treated Cuba? Given that the power relationships are vastly different, you can't compare apples and oranges like that.

We might also remember that Stalin rejected the Marshall plan offer made to him after WW II. If you check out poster egslim, you find that a constant harangue is made for "soft power." See also soft power by the Brits and French, vis a vis Spain and the arms embargo during the Spanish Civil War. Brilliant playing into Franco's hands, that bit, for better and for worse. (That mess was a mixed bag all around.)

Economic suasion is "soft power" in spades. It works wonders, unless the government in question doesn't give a flying fart about its people. I noted that the influence on Iraq, or soft power rather than hard power, for twelve years, and endorsed by the UN, worked wonders. Or did it?

DR

 

[egslim]

If you check out poster egslim, you find that a constant harangue is made for "soft power." See also soft power by the Brits and French, vis a vis Spain and the arms embargo during the Spanish Civil War. Brilliant playing into Franco's hands, that bit, for better and for worse. (That mess was a mixed bag all around.)

Actually my only issue against arms sales in general is that you could be equiping a future enemy. Otherwise they can be quite profitable, especially if you supply the winning side.

As for the Spanish Civil War, I don't see how that could eventually have turned out any better for Britain and France. They incurred little cost from intervention, and suffered no penalty from the outcome. More extensive intervention would have incurred much greater cost for little - if any - benefit. Assuming such intervention would have been succesful, which is not a given.

In the modern western world hard power's fundamental weakness is that public opinion often does not allow you to apply it effectively. Iraq could have been/can be pacified completely in a matter of months with hard power. It may require killing half the population or more, but it's quite possible - except that it's a political impossibility.
The result of these limits imposed by public opinion is that when applied hard power basically has two hands tied behind its back. Making its application more costly and less likely to succeed.

Against this background soft power gains in attractiveness tremendously. It's cheaper and at least as likely to succeed as hard power applied within the limits determined by public opinion in the modern western world.

My point is that as long as those limits remain in force, hard power is rarely worth bothering with. I can see them being lifted some decades in the future, but that is another discussion.