Crop circle debunking help needed

chuck4842 said:
Known by whom?Where?When? Not interested?....Try me.
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It was known by everyone who read The Sun, saw the story reported in news media. All of which can be backed up by a paper trail of requests to the circlemakers commissioning them to make the circle, a design brief, payment for the work they did.
Go get the information from the circlemakers website and if you don't think their story is true and accurate, then go do some work to prove it's not true and 'bust' them with your contrary findings.
 
carlitos said:
chuck4842, just a heads-up from the sideline - you are really coming off like a jerk here. Is something preventing you from honestly discussing crop circles?
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No sir, as a matter of fact I'll give you my phone #, cell, work, and home #. I've lived in homeless shelters for stuff I didn't do. I'd lay my heart out for you if I had a lawyer allowing me too. Any objections? Anybody? Right here on this thread.
 
So, anyway...


Chuck, I think your standards for evidence are a little skewed. I don't think it's too much of a reductio ad absurdum to say that it appears that the only evidence you'd accept to accept hoaxers is your own eyes and yet you consider extraterrestrials as a valid explanation for at least some of circles when your own (overly) rigorous standards for evidence should supposedly rule out that possibility, entirely.

You want to believe in something transcendent? Join the club, we all do, to one degree or another, but there's plenty of awe and majesty in this universe without having to invent any. I'd say there's a fair chance that intelligent life exists somewhere out there, but there is no evidence that they are coming here and carving crop circles with their force beams. No evidence at all. Similarly (and I know you both hate and reject this comparison), there's no evidence that magic tricks are evidence of the paranormal, despite what some fans of Uri Geller may believe.
 
chuck4842 said:
carlitos said:
chuck4842, just a heads-up from the sideline - you are really coming off like a jerk here. Is something preventing you from honestly discussing crop circles?
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No sir, as a matter of fact I'll give you my phone #, cell, work, and home #. I've lived in homeless shelters for stuff I didn't do. I'd lay my heart out for you if I had a lawyer allowing me too. Any objections? Anybody? Right here on this thread.
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In other words, the only thing preventing you is your own simple, bloody-minded refusal to do so.

That'll end well.
 
OK. Anybody up this summer to make a nice crop circle (motive to be decided) in a willing farmer field, document it from start to end with a camera without disruption and show the frigging ejection and bent stalk ?

The offer is only for the German (Hessen preferably) dweller of these non-hallowed halls of JREF.

ETA: the biggest obstacle would be to find a willing farmer , as I won't do any illegal stuff.
 
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chuck4842 said:
I'm not much on legal terms , but did the Sun commission you for your photoshopping abilities? Where in your CGI pics is proof they did commission the rings. A pic of fresh nodes doesn't proove they came out of those rings does it? Would a news report video of a scientist walking into the ring and holding the nodes up to the camera be more convincing?
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That is a bit stiff coming from someone who hasn't got a shred of evidence himself.

Let me repeat, since you tend to ignore it: Human origin of (some) crop circles is well documented. If you want to claim some other origin, you need to provide the proof.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Let me repeat, since you tend to ignore it: Human origin of (some) crop circles is well documented
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It is ? Where? Your continually repeating yourself doesn't make it so.

Sceptic Tank has provided you a link to circlemakers.org. If you still disbelieve the story, please feel free to contact The Sun and make inquiries.
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Just like a skeptic, making crazy claims and expecting me to do all the work for him.
 
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chuck4842 said:
It is ? Where? Your continually repeating yourself doesn't make it so.

Just like a skeptic, making crazy claims and expecting me to do all the work for him.
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Secondary source for verifying the reality of this circle.

The International Crop Circle Database was run for years by the late Paul Vigay. While we disagreed on many things cropcircle, you could not criticise his integrity regarding collation of circle sightings.

http://ccdb.cropcircleresearch.com/info.cgi?d=uk2005ak
Description

A sequence of 'Olympic' rings, commissioned by The Sun newspaper and featured on the front cover of 10th June edition
 
Did anyone here drop this?
Hook.jpg
I found it in a crop circle discussion.
 
Aepervius said:
OK. Anybody up this summer to make a nice crop circle (motive to be decided) in a willing farmer field, document it from start to end with a camera without disruption and show the frigging ejection and bent stalk ?

The offer is only for the German (Hessen preferably) dweller of these non-hallowed halls of JREF.

ETA: the biggest obstacle would be to find a willing farmer , as I won't do any illegal stuff.
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This has been done already and is shown on a documentary called 'CircleSpeak - A Journey into the Heart of Crop Circle Country'.

A group of researchers create a legal formation then look at the results:

The video is shown here under a different name as it aired on Sky, the quality is rough but audio is fine, if you want to skip check from 36:00 in: http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/4190913?searchid=1ffa15d0-95b9-49bd-ab19-82d32ce28564


And here is another documentary that covers all points of man-made abilities, a commissioned formation that is designed by a mathematician and bent nodes and such like:


National Geographic -The Truth Behind Crop Circles: http://veehd.com/video/3617780_National-Geographic-The-Truth-Behind-Crop-Circles

http://cabiz.net/heartlink/hoaxed2009.htm
 
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Angel Love said:
This has been done already and is shown on a documentary called 'CircleSpeak - A Journey into the Heart of Crop Circle Country'.

A group of researchers create a legal formation then look at the results:

The video is shown here under a different name as it aired on Sky, the quality is rough but audio is fine, if you want to skip check from 36:00 in: http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/4190913?searchid=1ffa15d0-95b9-49bd-ab19-82d32ce28564


And here is another documentary that covers all points of man-made abilities, a commissioned formation that is designed by a mathematician and bent nodes and such like:


National Geographic -The Truth Behind Crop Circles: http://veehd.com/video/3617780_National-Geographic-The-Truth-Behind-Crop-Circles

http://cabiz.net/heartlink/hoaxed2009.htm
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To be fair, though, we only have the documentary makers' word for the fact that the people videoed making the circles are human. There's no evidence that they're not aliens in disguise.
 
EHocking said:
Secondary source for verifying the reality of this circle.

The International Crop Circle Database was run for years by the late Paul Vigay. While we disagreed on many things cropcircle, you could not criticise his integrity regarding collation of circle sightings.

http://ccdb.cropcircleresearch.com/info.cgi?d=uk2005ak
Description

A sequence of 'Olympic' rings, commissioned by The Sun newspaper and featured on the front cover of 10th June edition
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I click and see the title but nothing else.
 
Angel Love said:
This has been done already and is shown on a documentary called 'CircleSpeak - A Journey into the Heart of Crop Circle Country'.

A group of researchers create a legal formation then look at the results:

The video is shown here under a different name as it aired on Sky, the quality is rough but audio is fine, if you want to skip check from 36:00 in: http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/4190913?searchid=1ffa15d0-95b9-49bd-ab19-82d32ce28564


And here is another documentary that covers all points of man-made abilities, a commissioned formation that is designed by a mathematician and bent nodes and such like:


National Geographic -The Truth Behind Crop Circles: http://veehd.com/video/3617780_National-Geographic-The-Truth-Behind-Crop-Circles

http://cabiz.net/heartlink/hoaxed2009.htm
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Thanks Angel, the first link is a 44 minute video, which really brought up the red skeptic flag. I mean how can a complex crop circle made by humans be made in 45 minutes of uninterrupted video . The challenge you're replying to. But I'm willing to consider it after its through uploading, something is affecting the speed, and I'll have to see it later, I also appreciate you're recommendation of "skip check from 36:00 in", because that would leave 8 minutes of evidence. I suspect already though, alot of "skippin'".

The second linked video wanted permission to download software, I don't do that because of experience.

The third link of a pic of a crop circle centered on the trim lines was very obviously man made. So I agree that was definitely manmade within a second of looking at it. Nice pic.
 
zooterkin said:
I see:


How much more do you want?
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Oh I see your point now. A mundane description of an article. I've got alot of those I'd like to submit as scientific evidence if everyone here deem it acceptable incontrovertible evidence. Did you not see the huge blank page? Wouldn't that be proof of an invisible formation? Can man do that? I may not be familiar with the site. Is it a site that declares proof there was an article titled that? Does a title, proove there was bent elongated notes , with heat evidence similar to crop circles declared genuine phenomena?
 
chuck4842 said:
Thanks Angel, the first link is a 44 minute video, which really brought up the red skeptic flag. I mean how can a complex crop circle made by humans be made in 45 minutes of uninterrupted video . The challenge you're replying to. But I'm willing to consider it after its through uploading, something is affecting the speed, and I'll have to see it later, I also appreciate you're recommendation of "skip check from 36:00 in", because that would leave 8 minutes of evidence. I suspect already though, alot of "skippin'".

The second linked video wanted permission to download software, I don't do that because of experience.

The third link of a pic of a crop circle centered on the trim lines was very obviously man made. So I agree that was definitely manmade within a second of looking at it. Nice pic.
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I agree, the very idea that humans could cooperate and plan a complex action taking 45 minutes is totally ludicrous.
 
My last two posts were me admitting some were manmade. Even though I shouldn't extend the courtesy that wasn't offered to me. My evidence of a scientific report reviewed by a group of scientists, accepted and published, by an International Scientific Journal , whom specialize in the biology of plants. That evidence. Was rejected and tossed away because of a rejected report of an engineer who works for sketical organization.


My evidence of a Fox 8 news report video that showed a scientist walking into a crop circle holding up the dried like heated up nodes to the camera, and the formation lined east west exactly. Not with the trim lines, the formation was oblivious to any known references, of the landscape. That evidence., was rejected, declared hoax, because my simpleton self couldn't produce the paper trail.

If you can't play fair, why should I?
 
chuck4842 said:
If you can't play fair, why should I?
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I think the point is that there no requirement to provide scientific evidence of the mundane abilities of people to flatten wheat into geometric patterns. We know it can be done (I mean science knows of course) and it's really no one's fault but your own that you are not aware of the mechanisms of phototropism which will bend and elongate nodes in crops when they are knocked over regardless of if people, the wind or aliens knocked them over.

With regards to the Grasdorf Plates, we know that hoaxes happen, we know that people fall for hoaxes, again there is no requirement of providing scientific proof of something so well known and common. The onus is on the one making the claim that goes against the body of evidence.
 
Stray Cat said:
I think the point is that there no requirement to provide scientific evidence of the mundane abilities of people to flatten wheat into geometric patterns. We know it can be done (I mean science knows of course) and it's really no one's fault but your own that you are not aware of the mechanisms of phototropism which will bend and elongate nodes in crops when they are knocked over regardless of if people, the wind or aliens knocked them over.

With regards to the Grasdorf Plates, we know that hoaxes happen, we know that people fall for hoaxes, again there is no requirement of providing scientific proof of something so well known and common. The onus is on the one making the claim that goes against the body of evidence.
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If I say I'm not sure if it's manmade, and you say it is. Somebody has got to proove why other than the handy guide provided in the circlemakers for 5.99. Do I need to repost the review of that book in it's entirety? Show me where in that book it teaches you how to weave the crops like this.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=650&pictureid=4282


If its manmade, they got more resources than boards ,surveyors tape, night vision goggles.....yada..yada...yada. It just seems like alot of trouble to pull just a hoax.
 
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