Crop circle debunking help needed

[chuck4842]

If you want evidence of bent nodes in a man made crop circle, take this example:

[qimg]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/TheSun100605.jpg[/qimg]

Made by these dudes:
[qimg]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/Olympicteam.jpg[/qimg]

In which were found these babies (bent nodes):
[qimg]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/horiznodes1.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/bendnodeshand.jpg[/qimg]

And even some of these (expulsion cavities):
[qimg]http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg117/ThePsychoClown/olympicblownnodes1.jpg[/qimg]

Huh?, What are you on about? Wheres the evidence? Got any reference? Are just copy pasting again...LOL!

 

[Cuddles]

You mean the 19th century founder of the Church of the Latter Day Saints? Now I am confused.

Yep. As zooterkin notes, the story about finding golden plates and then having them mysteriously disappear so no-one can confirm the story afterwards is really quite similar. The old ones are the best, I guess. Dum dumdum dum dum.


Wait, "dumdum" is a real word?

 

[Angel Love]

Chuck4842; I'm catching up here and wondering what it is exactly you're trying to find out? Are you trying to work out if crop circles are all man made or if some of them have other origins?

 

[Akhenaten]

I was sent down the rabbit hole again, I presented a clip from Fox 8 news, and the responses were like, "got any proof?", "wheres the evidence", "hoax" and other oblivious ,clueless responses .

You were what?

You presented a clip where?

Why do you consider calls for proof/evidence or allegations of hoaxing to be oblivious, clueless responses? Like most people here, I find them to be pretty reasonable.

Doesn't the media have a responsibility to retract false info., or when they've been tricked?

No.

Like D. Rather, "I'm sorry".

Who the hell is D, and why is he sorry?

So I dug deeper and found some odd coincidences, like the locaton the plates were found was home of a people called the Vandals who sacked Rome and destroyed Romes relics hatefully which is where the word vandalism came from. The date these circles and plates were found was the anniversary of East and West Germany currency became the same. I know, trivial, but proof I learn crazy crap while here.

Correlation does not imply causation, I'm happy to say. Please don't blame us for everything you 'learn'.

Meanwhile the only evidence anyone has provided of people making Crop Circles is a National Geographic report of a crude small square that took 5 hours and didn't show bent or elongated nodes.

That's simply not true. As a matter of fact, every scrap of evidence that's been presented here supports the idea of people making crop circles, and none of it at all supports the idea that any of them were made by anything other than people.

Thanks for holding me to a higher standard than you do yourselves.

That doesn't seem very likely.

 

[tsig]

Huh?, What are you on about? Wheres the evidence? Got any reference? Are just copy pasting again...LOL!

Bend over and break the stalk of any plant with a long fibrous stem and you will get "expulsion cavities". Try it yourself.

 

[JimBenArm]

Try it yourself?
When has a woo-woo ever done anything for themselves?

It's against the woo-woo code of conduct!

 

[MRC_Hans]

Huh?, What are you on about? Wheres the evidence? Got any reference? Are just copy pasting again...LOL!

Uhh, did you see the photos?

However, again the argumentation is faulty, as you are trying to shift the burden of proof:

Any feature that has not been proved to be due to a man-made crop circle is claimed to be evidence of alien/paranormal origin. This is a non-sequiteur.

We know that people can and do make crop circles. People are the only verified source of crop circles. All other putative sources are not only not verified as sources of crop circles, they are not verified to exist at all.

Therefore, the default assumption must be that ANY observed feature of crop circles is a possible property of a man-made crop circle. So if you claim that any particular feature of any particular crop circle must be evidence of a non-man origin, the onus of proof is on you.

Nobody owes you positive proof that bent nodes, radioactivity, or whatever is from human activity. YOU must prove that they are NOT.


Hans

 

[chuck4842]

Chuck4842; I'm catching up here and wondering what it is exactly you're trying to find out? Are you trying to work out if crop circles are all man made or if some of them have other origins?

I'm presenting my belief that some have other origins. But apparently my first and greatest obstacle is to just find common ground with intellectuals who understand plain english. I know it's possible Stray cat and I can find something we agree on and have scientific evidence of it.

http://xaxor.com/images/656322/monkey_05.jpg

Edited by LashL: 

Removed hotlink. Please see rule 5.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I'm presenting my belief that some have other origins.

What you should try do is presenting some evidence. Or a coherent argument.

And I can see that the answer to my last question is "yes" - you are just going to pretend that you never made the ridiculous argument that you did.

 

[Stray Cat]

Huh?, What are you on about? Wheres the evidence? Got any reference? Are just copy pasting again...LOL!

I'm on about a man made crop circle that contained the bent nodes you were claiming hadn't been shown in a man made crop circle.

The Olympic Rings circle was commissioned by The Sun newspaper, made by the Circlemakers.org and the bent nodes and expulsion cavities were found in it.

If I misunderstood your request I apologise but I thought that was what you were asking for.

 

[chuck4842]

I'm on about a man made crop circle that contained the bent nodes you were claiming hadn't been shown in a man made crop circle.

Oh , I thought you were just posting pics you made.

The Olympic Rings circle was commissioned by The Sun newspaper, made by the Circlemakers.org and the bent nodes and expulsion cavities were found in it..

I'm not much on legal terms , but did the Sun commission you for your photoshopping abilities? Where in your CGI pics is proof they did commission the rings. A pic of fresh nodes doesn't proove they came out of those rings does it? Would a news report video of a scientist walking into the ring and holding the nodes up to the camera be more convincing?

If I misunderstood your request I apologise but I thought that was what you were asking for.

No, you understood right. But I do accept your apology for the presentation.

 

[23_Tauri]

Oh , I thought you were just posting pics you made.

If Stray Cat made the bent and elongated nodes, does that make him an alien cat? From the constellation Lynx?

 

[Angel Love]

I'm presenting my belief that some have other origins. But apparently my first and greatest obstacle is to just find common ground with intellectuals who understand plain english. I know it's possible Stray cat and I can find something we agree on and have scientific evidence of it.

http://xaxor.com/images/656322/monkey_05.jpg

Edited by LashL: 

Removed hotlink. Please see rule 5.

I can't see how it can be in dispute that some crop circles have other origins?

The pictures Sc posted are not CGI, they were commissioned formations.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I'm not much on legal terms , but did the Sun commission you for your photoshopping abilities? Where in your CGI pics is proof they did commission the rings.

http://www.circlemakers.org/olympics.html

A pic of fresh nodes doesn't proove they came out of those rings does it?

No, but I'd be curious to know where else you think they came from.

Would a news report video of a scientist walking into the ring and holding the nodes up to the camera be more convincing?

You tell us. Personally, I see no reason to disbelieve that they are what Stray Cat claims they are, and no reason whatsoever to believe that they're actually the result of alien intervention that Stray Cat is passing off as man-made for reasons that I couldn't even begin to fathom.

 

[carlitos]

Oh , I thought you were just posting pics you made.



I'm not much on legal terms , but did the Sun commission you for your photoshopping abilities? Where in your CGI pics is proof they did commission the rings. A pic of fresh nodes doesn't proove they came out of those rings does it? Would a news report video of a scientist walking into the ring and holding the nodes up to the camera be more convincing?



No, you understood right. But I do accept your apology for the presentation.

CGI? Photoshop? You have analyzed those photos, and in your expert opinion, they have been manipulated?

 

[chuck4842]

Bend over and break the stalk of any plant with a long fibrous stem and you will get "expulsion cavities". Try it yourself.

Pretty dang offensive right there. Let's get this clear now. I ain't about to bend over with any possible result of an expulsion cavity. I can't even post a pic here.

 

[Stray Cat]

I'm not much on legal terms , but did the Sun commission you for your photoshopping abilities?

No, it was the Daily Telegraph that took one of my photoshopped pictures from the internet and reproduced it in their newspaper after cropping my copyright credit off and adding someone else's.
But that one wasn't a CGI crop circle either, it was one the farmer had cut out before anyone had a chance to photograph it. My Photoshopping just airbrushed it back in again. I don't think any of my photoshop work has ever appeared in The Sun.

Where in your CGI pics is proof they did commission the rings.

Sceptic Tank has provided you a link to circlemakers.org. If you still disbelieve the story, please feel free to contact The Sun and make inquiries.

A pic of fresh nodes doesn't proove they came out of those rings does it?

You're right, it doesn't. However, I really don't have to prove anything, I'm only trying to point you towards information that you can use to make an informed decision.

Would a news report video of a scientist walking into the ring and holding the nodes up to the camera be more convincing?

Maybe, but as the crop circle was known to be man made no researcher was interested in it and scientists already know that when you knock crops over, the nodes bend as a part of phototropism so excuse the lack of someone on the news 'stating the obvious'.

 

[tsig]

Try it yourself?
When has a woo-woo ever done anything for themselves?

It's against the woo-woo code of conduct!

I know, unless the knowledge is imparted spiritually, psychically or mystically directly into your brain, it's merely natural and therefore worthless.

 

[chuck4842]

Maybe, but as the crop circle was known to be man made no researcher was interested in it.

Known by whom?Where?When? Not interested?....Try me.

 

[carlitos]

chuck4842, just a heads-up from the sideline - you are really coming off like a jerk here. Is something preventing you from honestly discussing crop circles?