Consciousness question

[Hardenbergh]

That's rich. What do you think life expectancy was two-hundred years ago? Well I'll tell you. It was in the twenties. Your wonderful self-caretaking body and that marvelous mind of yours would probably be dead by now.

I do recall reading in a previous thread that Iacchus was hooked on a few supplements. He didn't say which ones although I do seem to remember something about Vitamin B-6 (pyridoxine). It causes you to have more vivid dreams.

I did a little searching and discovered that pyridoxine was discussed in a "Lucid Dreaming" thread at the Dionysus website. I'm not sure that Iacchus uses it but I discussed it with one of the other members. I think I was the one that brought up the subject when I came across some information about Vitamin B-6 at Dr. Andrew Weil's website.

As a matter of fact, it's right here:

http://archives.dionysus.org/showthreade3a8.html?t=171

 

[Iacchus]

That's rich. What do you think life expectancy was two-hundred years ago? Well I'll tell you. It was in the twenties. Your wonderful self-caretaking body and that marvelous mind of yours would probably be dead by now.

Well, let's just say I'm living proof of someone who doesn't go to the doctor regularly.

 

[cpolk]

Do you mean like the folks at Enron who, with all their bungling caused the electric rates to practically double within a year over here? Not to mention all the local power company employees who are getting screwed out of their retirement?

Yes, those people. I don't hold the "corporation", employees or even out-of-the-loop management personell for Kennth Lay and the others' actions.

 

[Tricky]

Well, let's just say I'm living proof of someone who doesn't go to the doctor regularly.

Perhaps not, but I'm betting you were vaccinated as a child and you benefit greatly from improvments in public health that were brought about by modern medicine.

If you came down with a really bad disease, would you go to a doctor, or just let it kill you?

 

[Z]

Let us not forget the various plagues and epidemics he will never encounter thanks to modern medicine.

 

[cpolk]

Let us not forget the various plagues and epidemics he will never encounter thanks to modern medicine.

Don't remind us of the evils of penicillin! A lot of good people may have died, but they were just collateral damage for ridding the world of evildoers!

 

[Iacchus]

Perhaps not, but I'm betting you were vaccinated as a child and you benefit greatly from improvments in public health that were brought about by modern medicine.

Well, obviously I wouldn't be going "so what" about it if I believed that the life we have here is all there was.

If you came down with a really bad disease, would you go to a doctor, or just let it kill you?

Didn't you read what I wrote above? I did eventually go to the doctor but, he couldn't find anything wrong with me.

 

[Mercutio]

Didn't you read what I wrote above? I did eventually go to the doctor but, he couldn't find anything wrong with me.

We also read that this was over 8 years ago (we pay attention). If you got sick tomorrow, would you see a doctor?

 

[Jeff Corey]

I understand that the Native Americans were a very spiritual people. Yet they were never read up on Homer or, believed in Jesus Christ even.

Oh, yeah, like they were just hanging out and smoking their peace pipes and nibbling a little shroom or eight and digging the Great Spirit all day long.
Read some history, please.

 

[Jeff Corey]

Duplicate erased.

 

[Tricky]

Well, obviously I wouldn't be going "so what" about it if I believed that the life we have here is all there was.

It doesn't sound as if you are saying "so what" even now.

Didn't you read what I wrote above? I did eventually go to the doctor but, he couldn't find anything wrong with me.

Yes I did. You got better without major treatment of any kind. It sounds to me as if he was right, and there wasn't anything physically wrong with you. Do you hate him for being right?

But what if tomorrow you were diagnosed with cancer. Would you just take your vitamins and hope for the best?

 

[Iacchus]

We also read that this was over 8 years ago (we pay attention). If you got sick tomorrow, would you see a doctor?

Well, let me put it this way, there have been several instances in my life where something did happen that, if it had happened to someone else, they would have immediately rushed off to the hospital. I didn't, and I'm still here to tell the tale. Oh, there were a couple of instances 25 years ago, where I had gastroenteritis real bad, and I went to the hospital then ... but, aside from that, I've only seen the doctor once (as mentioned above).

 

[Tricky]

Well, let me put it this way, there have been several instances in my life where something did happen that, if it had happened to someone else, they would have immediately rushed off to the hospital. I didn't, and I'm still here to tell the tale. Oh, there were a couple of instances 25 years ago, where I had gastroenteritis real bad, and I went to the hospital then ... but, aside from that, I've only seen the doctor once (as mentioned above).

LOL. So you only trust doctors if you have something "real bad". What would have happened if you had gotten gastroenteritis 200 years ago? You'd be dead, that's what.

 

[Iacchus]

LOL. So you only trust doctors if you have something "real bad". What would have happened if you had gotten gastroenteritis 200 years ago? You'd be dead, that's what.

Actually, no. The doctors didn't do anything for me in the hospital, just let me lay there cramped up in pain. And, by the time they figured out what the problem was, a few hours later, it began to subside. It sure felt like I was going to die though.

 

[Mercutio]

Well, let me put it this way, there have been several instances in my life where something did happen that, if it had happened to someone else, they would have immediately rushed off to the hospital.

Which "someone else" do you know this about? Are you sure it wasn't the case that no one else would have even thought about seeing a doctor, and you are making a bigger deal out of it than they are?

(Not trying to insult--just pointing out that you have no control group. Maybe you were tougher than the average, maybe the average would be tougher than you. Just looking at one person's experience, you just cannot know.)

I am soooooooo glad we don't study medicine by listening to uncontrolled self-reports like this.

 

[Mercutio]

LOL. So you only trust doctors if you have something "real bad". What would have happened if you had gotten gastroenteritis 200 years ago? You'd be dead, that's what.

Not necessarily. Even really nasty diseases have a survival rate. That's what keeps bogus treatments in business.

The simplification is, you get better from every illness but one.

Fortunately, medical science keeps pushing that one back further and further.

 

[Iacchus]

Which "someone else" do you know this about? Are you sure it wasn't the case that no one else would have even thought about seeing a doctor, and you are making a bigger deal out of it than they are?

(Not trying to insult--just pointing out that you have no control group. Maybe you were tougher than the average, maybe the average would be tougher than you. Just looking at one person's experience, you just cannot know.)

I am soooooooo glad we don't study medicine by listening to uncontrolled self-reports like this.

Yeah, and thus far I've only seen a doctor three times over the last 30 years, and each time they've said, "Sorry, there's really nothing we can do." Of course they didn't have a problem sending me a bill either.

 

[Tricky]

Actually, no. The doctors didn't do anything for me in the hospital, just let me lay there cramped up in pain. And, by the time they figured out what the problem was, a few hours later, it began to subside. It sure felt like I was going to die though.

Well aren't you glad they didn't try to do something that could have made things worse? Did you want them to medicate you so you wouldn't feel pain? What is it you think they should have done that they didn't do?

If you're mad at modern medicine because it cannot alleviate all suffering, then you might as well get used to being mad. You will have a fairly long lifespan in which to carry this grudge.

Not necessarily. Even really nasty diseases have a survival rate. That's what keeps bogus treatments in business.

Yeah, but you can die from the bogus treatment too, even if you would have survived the nasty disease.

The simplification is, you get better from every illness but one.

A great oversimplification. You may never get better from arthritis, but you are unlikely to die from it. It will just torment you until something else gets you.

Fortunately, medical science keeps pushing that one back further and further.

It is the "broken barrel" model. Think of a barrel filled with aqua vitae in which the staves are broken off at different heights. The barrel will hold as much as the lowest stave. If you "fix" the barrel by doubling the height of the lowest stave, it will still only hold as much aqua vitae as the next lowest stave.

 

[Iacchus]

If you're mad at modern medicine because it cannot alleviate all suffering, then you might as well get used to being mad. You will have a fairly long lifespan in which to carry this grudge.

And why do you say this, just because I don't go running to the doctor every time I cut my finger? You know, I've saved lots of money by not "buying" into the system. Heck, I don't even worry when I'm out of work and don't have any health coverage. Never have been. And no, I'm not really mad at anybody, although I might think the whole thing is a big joke.

 

[Z]

Wait... Iacchus ran to the hospital for bad gas???

MO-ron.

cpolk... what's the deal with penicillin (sp?)? I've always found it to be useful.