Consciousness question

[SuperCoolGuy]

As a concept within your mind, yes. Whereas if it's a concept based upon the truth, and the mind in fact knows this, haven't we just acknowledged the mind as the genuine source of objectivity?

Sure, but wouldn't many minds be better than just one for genuine objectivity.

If I claim to be inside a building because I see it, but no one else sees it, how can I prove that my version of reality exists and the building is there.

I'd need to analyze it and describe the details of the building to the others and let them test it for themselves. Either they realize there is a building with the same properties I observed through simple tests of their senses or I have to conclude that my senses deceived me.

 

[Genesius]

Am I allowed to observe a building while I am inside the building?

As a concept within your mind, yes. Whereas if it's a concept based upon the truth, and the mind in fact knows this, haven't we just acknowledged the mind as the genuine source of objectivity?

I dunno, I'm currently observing the inside of a building. It's not a concept within my mind, it's right there in front of my face.

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

I dunno, I'm currently observing the inside of a building. It's not a concept within my mind, it's right there in front of my face.

It is a concept in your mind. It is also there in front of your face. If you did not have a concept in your mind of the building, the building would still exist.

That's the point that should be made, here. Consciousness doesn't make existence, existence makes consciousness.

 

[Iacchus]

Since consciousness observes time and space, consciousness cannot be a part of time and space.

Yes, which is why I ascribe consciousness to a fifth dimension.

Hence, viruses, aborted fetuses, my dad, carpenter ants all have a place in heaven?

Yes, I believe this is correct. Although I don't profess to know the full scope of it.

 

[Genesius]

Viruses and carpenter ants in heaven. . .

Iacchus, you have just won the title as the Most Wooish Person in the World. You make Sylvia Browne look normal and sane in comparison.

 

[Iacchus]

Sure, but wouldn't many minds be better than just one for genuine objectivity.

And this is precisely what consciousness is, a continuum, with many minds.

If I claim to be inside a building because I see it, but no one else sees it, how can I prove that my version of reality exists and the building is there.

Then I would say your building doesn't exist within the parameters of time and space, provided these other folks had the same capacity of physical sensation you had. I wouldn't expect them to see it in that regard.

I'd need to analyze it and describe the details of the building to the others and let them test it for themselves. Either they realize there is a building with the same properties I observed through simple tests of their senses or I have to conclude that my senses deceived me.

No, your mind would have deceived you ... at least with respect to your physical sensations.

 

[Iacchus]

Viruses and carpenter ants in heaven. . .

Iacchus, you have just won the title as the Most Wooish Person in the World. You make Sylvia Browne look normal and sane in comparison.

Yes, the spiritual world (by means of influx) flows into the natural world, and is the source of the natural world. So in that sense everything has a spirit.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

How would you know, if it were outside of the bounds you were aware of? What I'm saying is that the whole thing entails a relationship with your awareness and, that this is a prequisite to understanding anything else. What else can it possibly suggest, except that consciousness itself is a continuum, that emanates from some place other than the brain?

Consciousness is one thing, what you think about it is something else.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

The Universe ... or, that which stands outside of it.

If you KNOW, then you can SHOW me, stop using words.

 

[Iacchus]

Consciousness is one thing, what you think about it is something else.

Think about it? How so? That is the consciousness experience.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Is time and space capable of observing itself? The only thing that defines time and space (as a concept) is consciousness.

Huh. Words again. Thats not the way. SHOW ME.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

In order to observe anything, you must have the capacity to stand outside of it. Or, would you have us all believe that you know nothing about the Universe?

Duality. Who says it? Who sees it?

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Our physical bodies are, yes. But not that part of us which observes it.

Again, merely ideas in your head. You can't see. You have not seen. You are not aware. SHOW ME, dont use words.

 

[Iacchus]

If you KNOW, then you can SHOW me, stop using words.

No, I don't claim to be God ... albeit a piece of God, yes. What some might refer to as "a soul." Which of course stands outside of time and space.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

That is the proof.

That which observes something cannot be a part of the thing being observed.

Since consciousness observes time and space, consciousness cannot be a part of time and space.

Yep, thats what he is trying to say. He utters words that he has read somewhere else. They are not HIS words, he wont be able to grasp the meaning behind them unless he ceases to think and commits to SEE.

Very different things.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

As a concept within your mind, yes. Whereas if it's a concept based upon the truth, and the mind in fact knows this, haven't we just acknowledged the mind as the genuine source of objectivity?

"Truth" another fancy word, yet you have said NOTHING. Nope, Im more convinced than ever.

WHO talks? WHO asks?

Unless you can SHOW you are merely repeating words without making any sense.

Hope you can SEE someday.

 

[Iacchus]

Again, merely ideas in your head. You can't see. You have not seen. You are not aware. SHOW ME, dont use words.

AHA!

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

I dunno, I'm currently observing the inside of a building. It's not a concept within my mind, it's right there in front of my face.

Ahh yes. Still, the "Inside the building" part is, sorry to say, a concept in your mind!

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

It is a concept in your mind. It is also there in front of your face. If you did not have a concept in your mind of the building, the building would still exist.

That's the point that should be made, here. Consciousness doesn't make existence, existence makes consciousness.

Ahh, nice words. They are still words Iacchus, but from someone who thinks, not someone who merely repeats what others have said.

 

[Iacchus]

Ahh, nice words. They are still words Iacchus, but from someone who thinks, not someone who merely repeats what others have said.

I understand you don't believe in God.