Cancel culture IRL

[Darat]

Where does it say that "their subject" is limited by the course syllabus and cannot include the prof's published research?

Once again, I find myself taken aback by how the anti-speech folks will go to jesuitical lengths to narrow the scope of permissible speech in a university setting.

Yeah I know what you mean. I signed up to do a degree in engineering and spent 4 years learning about the politics of the industrial revolution....

 

[Dr. Keith]

Bootlickers, eh? Okay then.

Is there a similarly insulting term to use for people who hope to get professors fired from teaching?

Not that I'd deploy it, just curious.

Snowflake?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Nice goalpost move: I said "Wuhan Flu" or "China virus". Sorry, not sucked in by your failed strawman attempt.

This is semantic quibbling. Your complaint is that place-names are racist and promote bigotry or hatred, so making an exception for "Wuhan Coronavirus" is special pleading. There's no material difference between "Wuhan Flu" and "Wuhan Coronavirus" given that the place-name is the problematic element.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Regardless, I think that was pretty much irrelevant to chemistry, and served no purpose in that class. I fully support teacher's rights to their own political, moral, and religious beliefs, but I strongly object to the teacher's views being incorporated in classroom material.

Some exceptions may be made with political science or religion classes, but in those cases, special care should be taken to ensure that the teacher is not promoting their own ideological bases as the "right" views.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The error the school made is that they didn't work within the constraints of their own system.

If this old fogey is tenured up and protected from being outright fired for being a crackpot, then the better move would have simply been to remove his teaching responsibilities and find some quiet corner for him to be irrelevant in until retirement or death removes him.

 

[catsmate]

Oh, I don't know... how about... the last one you posted!

The school’s announcement did not include the professor’s name or describe the language used but The Tab Syracuse, a social media account that covers Syracuse University news, posted a photo of a syllabus that references the coronavirus as both the “Wuhan flu” and “Chinese Communist Party Virus.”

Syracuse’s full statement said:

“Syracuse University unequivocally condemns racism and xenophobia and rejects bigotry, hate and intolerance of any kind.

The derogatory language used by a professor on his course syllabus is damaging to the learning environment for our students and offensive to Chinese, international and Asian-Americans everywhere who have experienced hate speech, rhetoric and actions since the pandemic began.​

Dear oh dear... forgot to check what the link actually said before you posted it huh?

Oops!!

.
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Ah context.

Are you seriously claiming that naming a virus after its supposed place of origin implies a belief in the racial inferiority of the people living there?
<>

Oh good grief. It's not naming it after it's supposed place of origin it's perpetuating the Trumpist meme blaming China.

 

[catsmate]

Seems to me that if someone complains about Chinese Communism as an ideology, that lowers the likelihood that they are complaining about the Han people as an ethnicity. I'm highly skeptical of the claim that this professor was doing a racism in that syllabus.

At what point did it become reasonable to infer racism from [place name]/[virus] nomenclature?

Has anyone seen a set of goalposts?

 

[smartcooky]

This is semantic quibbling. Your complaint is that place-names are racist and promote bigotry or hatred, so making an exception for "Wuhan Coronavirus" is special pleading. There's no material difference between "Wuhan Flu" and "Wuhan Coronavirus" given that the place-name is the problematic element.

If you can't see the intent of calling Covid-19 the "Wuhan Flu" then you are being wilfully blind to racism and bigotry.

 

[smartcooky]

Has anyone seen a set of goalposts?

They're over there ------> in the "Racists' Rights" thread...

 

[Emily's Cat]

If you can't see the intent of calling Covid-19 the "Wuhan Flu" then you are being wilfully blind to racism and bigotry.

That's not what I said. Read it again.

I don't see any reasonable argument that says "Wuhan Flu" is racist and bigoted, but "Wuhan Coronavirus" is not.

ETA:
New York Times
NPR
BBC
CNN

 

[d4m10n]

Oh good grief. It's not naming it after it's supposed place of origin it's perpetuating the Trumpist meme blaming China.

Whether or not the Wuhan Institute of Virology (and thus the CCP) is at fault is a scientific question, one which rests in part on biochemistry. Looking at political memes isn't going to help anyone resolve it.

 

[d4m10n]

If you can't see the intent of calling Covid-19 the "Wuhan Flu" then you are being wilfully blind to racism and bigotry.

Either that or else you're massively overreacting and attributing covert sinophobia in place of overt anti-communism.

 

[smartcooky]

That's not what I said. Read it again.

I did, and you are still wrong

I don't see any reasonable argument that says "Wuhan Flu" is racist and bigoted

Like I said, wilfully blind to racism and bigotry

but "Wuhan Coronavirus" is not.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-05...bola-hendra-zika/12262472?nw=0&r=HtmlFragment

Until 2015, viruses were usually named after the area or locale where they were thought to have originated. Think: Ebola, Hendra and MERS.

This was the case until the World Health Organisation called upon scientists, governments and the media to adhere to what it called "best practices" by naming viruses so as to minimise "unnecessary negative effects on nations, economies and people".​

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/28/us/disease-outbreaks-coronavirus-naming-trnd/index.html

Yes, we long have referred to disease outbreaks by geographic places. Here's why we shouldn't any more

"But the past has shown naming diseases after places can have negative consequences for nations, economies and people.
Here's why scientists and scholars say these naming practices are problematic"

History indicates that when disease outbreaks occur, xenophobia or racism can follow. During the 2003 SARS outbreak, media coverage of the disease led to the stigmatization of Asian communities in countries such as Canada. It devastated Chinese-owned businesses, especially those located in Chinatowns.
After the 2014 outbreak of Ebola, which is named for a river in the Democratic Republic of the Congo where it was first discovered, African immigrants in the US reported being turned away from jobs and stores. Others faced questions about how long they had been in the US because of their national origin.
The coronavirus has already made people of Asian descent around the world targets of racism and fearmongering. Characterizing the virus as Chinese only exacerbates the problem, experts say.John C. Yang, president and executive director of Asian Americans Advancing Justice, said that his organization is already seeing a significant increase in hate incidents against Asian Americans, which he says is a direct result of stereotypes perpetuated by terms such as "Chinese virus."
"(Asian-Americans) like everyone in this country, are concerned about coronavirus, COVID-19, and protecting their family," Yang said. "Added onto that is the burden of looking out for their physical safety because of these stereotypes and some latent racism that has engulfed this country because of these terms."​

If you are prepared to ignore or handwave this away, then I can only conclude that you are happy to remain wilfully blind to the racist implications of calling Covid-19 the "Wuhan Flu", and the "Wuhan Coronavirus"

ETA:
New York Times
NPR
BBC
CNN

SO WHAT? Since when has a media outlet using racist terms been OK, or an example to be followed? Radio, TV and newspapers used to use the terms ****** (n-word) and Spic, and Chink to to refer to Black people, Latinos and Asians. Is that still acceptable now do you think?

 

[smartcooky]

Either that or else you're massively overreacting and attributing covert sinophobia in place of overt anti-communism.

Well in that case, the CDC, the WHO and medical scientists from all over the world are "massively overreacting"

The n-word was acceptable once, as was calling Latinos "Spics", and calling AIDS the "Gay Disease". They aren't any more. Why do you think that is?

Well, here's why. Its because people with a similar mindset to mine started calling out those who used these terms for their racism and bigotry... and when we did that, people like you jumped in to defend the racists and bigots by saying we were "massively overreacting"

So now, when people accuse me of "massively overreacting" to racism, I wear that as a badge of honour. It tells me that I have managed to hit the mark.

,
,

 

[Emily's Cat]

I did, and you are still wrong

WTF am I wrong about? More specifically, what exactly do you think I said that you feel is wrong?

Like I said, wilfully blind to racism and bigotry

Oh JFC. smartcooky, sometimes you are so entrenched in an argument that you can't seem to tell up from down.

I don't personally like any of the three: Wuhan Flu, China Virus, Wuhan Coronavirus.

But that doesn't alter the interaction you had with d4m10n. You said that Wuhan Flu and Chinese Flu were racist terms. d4m10n countered by pointing out that in early 2020 WHO used the term Wuhan Coronavirus.

You responded with this:

Nice goalpost move: I said "Wuhan Flu" or "China virus". Sorry, not sucked in by your failed strawman attempt.

You call it a goalpost move that d4m10n used "Wuhan Coronavirus" and you further dug in by saying that you specified two specific phrases as being racist: "Wuhan Flu" and "China Virus".

The net result of this is that you imply that "Wuhan Coronavirus" is acceptable but that "Wuhan Flu" and "China Virus" are not. And to me, that's semantic quibbling on your part, because there's no material difference at all between "Wuhan Coronavirus" and "Wuhan Flu" with respect to the place-name impact. I even specifically mention that the place-name is the problematic element!

You then double down on your position and imply that I'm a racist for pointing out that both "Wuhan Coronavirus" and "Wuhan Flu" are equally place-name dependent!

So how about you back the hell up, and re-read the interaction?

As a suggestion, you could very easily say "Wuhan Coronavirus" is just as bad as "Wuhan Flu" and then you and I are both happy. Alternatively, you can provide some reason, ANY reason why one of those is acceptable and the other is not... and why your interpretation merits you calling me names.

 

[smartcooky]

WTF am I wrong about? More specifically, what exactly do you think I said that you feel is wrong?



Oh JFC. smartcooky, sometimes you are so entrenched in an argument that you can't seem to tell up from down.

I don't personally like any of the three: Wuhan Flu, China Virus, Wuhan Coronavirus.

But that doesn't alter the interaction you had with d4m10n. You said that Wuhan Flu and Chinese Flu were racist terms. d4m10n countered by pointing out that in early 2020 WHO used the term Wuhan Coronavirus.

You responded with this:


You call it a goalpost move that d4m10n used "Wuhan Coronavirus" and you further dug in by saying that you specified two specific phrases as being racist: "Wuhan Flu" and "China Virus".

The net result of this is that you imply that "Wuhan Coronavirus" is acceptable but that "Wuhan Flu" and "China Virus" are not. And to me, that's semantic quibbling on your part, because there's no material difference at all between "Wuhan Coronavirus" and "Wuhan Flu" with respect to the place-name impact. I even specifically mention that the place-name is the problematic element!

You then double down on your position and imply that I'm a racist for pointing out that both "Wuhan Coronavirus" and "Wuhan Flu" are equally place-name dependent!

So how about you back the hell up, and re-read the interaction?

As a suggestion, you could very easily say "Wuhan Coronavirus" is just as bad as "Wuhan Flu" and then you and I are both happy. Alternatively, you can provide some reason, ANY reason why one of those is acceptable and the other is not... and why your interpretation merits you calling me names.

Perhaps you would like to show me where I ever said (or even implied) "Wuhan Coronavirus" was an acceptable term now, at this time in history?

If you are thinking this post...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13602241&postcount=3561

...then you have completely misread it. I was calling out d4m10n for a strawman. Bringing a conversation back to the actual words used does not imply that I think the other words used are OK.

 

[Emily's Cat]

...then you have completely misread it. I was calling out d4m10n for a strawman. Bringing a conversation back to the actual words used does not imply that I think the other words used are OK.

If that was your intent, then your post was very unclear and conveyed a very different message than what you were thinking.

None of which excuses your accusations of racism toward me for noting that BOTH "Wuhan Flu" and "Wuhan Coronavirus" include the same problematic place-name element.

 

[d4m10n]

The n-word was acceptable once, as was calling Latinos "Spics", and calling AIDS the "Gay Disease". They aren't any more. Why do you think that is?

Presumably because people realized that using openly derogatory terms for ethnicity isn't okay, and that anyone can catch HIV.

You've yet to make the case that Spanish Flu is derogatory to Spaniards or that Hong Kong Flu is derogatory to the Hongkongese or that Persian Plague is derogatory to Persians. That is the argument you have to make to justify calling for this prof to get sacked on grounds of racism for linking an outbreak to its presumed origin.

 

[smartcooky]

Presumably because people realized that using openly derogatory terms for ethnicity isn't okay, and that anyone can catch HIV.

Remarkable. You understand the highlighted, yet you seem to be unable to apply that to Covid-19.

You've yet to make the case that Spanish Flu is derogatory to Spaniards or that Hong Kong Flu is derogatory to the Hongkongese or that Persian Plague is derogatory to Persians.

I've posted plenty of links to the CDC and WHO who say they are changing that policy and clearly stated the reasons why they are changing it... reasons that you seem to have a problem with. If you want to be too lazy to bother reading them, or you don't wish to read them because the content might challenge your worldview, that's your problem.

That is the argument you have to make to justify calling for this prof to get sacked on grounds of racism for linking an outbreak to its presumed origin.

No it isn't.

The argument I have to make is that it was unprofessional of him to make a racially charged political statement in the class safety protocols of a Chemistry syllabus, and keep in mind that Zubieta already admitted that it was exactly what he was doing. As I said earlier, I would have been (rightly) fired for doing that on a History syllabus. There were a lot of students at Syracuse who wanted him fired as well. He got off lightly - a slap on the hand with a wet tram ticket.

 

[smartcooky]

If that was your intent, then your post was very unclear and conveyed a very different message than what you were thinking.

None of which excuses your accusations of racism toward me for noting that BOTH "Wuhan Flu" and "Wuhan Coronavirus" include the same problematic place-name element.

If that was your intent, then you very unclear and conveyed a very different message than what you were thinking.