Cancel culture IRL

[smartcooky]

Which proposed academic cancellation featured any of those things?

Oh, I don't know... how about... the last one you posted!

Your skepticism is warranted.

The school’s announcement did not include the professor’s name or describe the language used but The Tab Syracuse, a social media account that covers Syracuse University news, posted a photo of a syllabus that references the coronavirus as both the “Wuhan flu” and “Chinese Communist Party Virus.”

Syracuse’s full statement said:

“Syracuse University unequivocally condemns racism and xenophobia and rejects bigotry, hate and intolerance of any kind.

The derogatory language used by a professor on his course syllabus is damaging to the learning environment for our students and offensive to Chinese, international and Asian-Americans everywhere who have experienced hate speech, rhetoric and actions since the pandemic began.​

Dear oh dear... forgot to check what the link actually said before you posted it huh?

Oops!!

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[d4m10n]

Oh, I don't know... how about... the last one you posted!

Are you seriously claiming that naming a virus after its supposed place of origin implies a belief in the racial inferiority of the people living there?

Ever heard of the Spanish Flu^WP? Should I be cancelled for daring to type that out?

(In my defense, I've more ancestors from Spain than any other single European nation.)

 

[smartcooky]

Are you seriously claiming that naming a virus after its supposed place of origin implies a belief in the racial inferiority of the people living there?

You'd have to ask the racist bastard who wrote that in a ******* teaching syllabus for chemistry. Seriously, you think that is acceptable?

How about I write a syllabus for teaching a US history class, and refer to black people as n-words, Chinese people as "chinks", Latinos as "spics" and Mexicans as "beaners". All OK with you? What about another history syllabus for WWII and the Holocaust, and I refer to the Jews as "Kikes". All good?

Ever heard of the Spanish Flu^WP? Should I be cancelled for daring to type that out?

(In my defense, I've more ancestors from Spain than any other single European nation.)

If you knew anything at all about history, you would know that it did NOT originate in Spain. It probably originated in France, but it is not known for certain. If you have as much Spanish heritage as you claim, I am surprised you didn't already know this.

Now, you can call it what you like, but I would expect.. actually no, I would demand that someone writing a scholarly paper or teaching syllabus would use the correct term for it; The Great 1918 Influenza Pandemic, or the 1918 H1N1 Influenza A pandemic.

ETA: and I would demand that a Professor writing a scholarly paper or teaching syllabus would use the correct term for the current pandemic... Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) - I would accept Covid-19 later in the paper so long as the full correct name is used at some point early in the paper.

 

[lionking]

Oh, I don't know... how about... the last one you posted!

The school’s announcement did not include the professor’s name or describe the language used but The Tab Syracuse, a social media account that covers Syracuse University news, posted a photo of a syllabus that references the coronavirus as both the “Wuhan flu” and “Chinese Communist Party Virus.”

Syracuse’s full statement said:

“Syracuse University unequivocally condemns racism and xenophobia and rejects bigotry, hate and intolerance of any kind.

The derogatory language used by a professor on his course syllabus is damaging to the learning environment for our students and offensive to Chinese, international and Asian-Americans everywhere who have experienced hate speech, rhetoric and actions since the pandemic began.​

Dear oh dear... forgot to check what the link actually said before you posted it huh?

Oops!!

.
.

You allow the freedom of speech defence for a leftist professor who proclaims 9/11 was an attack on the patriarchy and (at least somewhat) justified, yet not to a professor who calls covid the Wuhan flu? Really?

Many people predicted that Syracuse would act differently when a rightist professor caused offence. They were correct. And to me the level of offence of the leftist professor was extreme, the rightist professor not so much.

 

[smartcooky]

You allow the freedom of speech defence for a leftist professor who proclaims 9/11 was an attack on the patriarchy and (at least somewhat) justified, yet not to a professor who calls covid the Wuhan flu? Really?

Did I?

Really?

Are you talking about the link posted by d4m10n re: Jenn M Jackson? If so, you must be confusing me with someone else. I have made absolutely no mention of her whatsoever. I have not even commented on her one way or the other.

However, since you asked, if you want my view of her, she is a ******* idiot who needs to keep her racist, froot-loopy opinions to herself, and not infect her students with that kind poison. Does she really think that all the 2,977 people who died and the 6000+ injured, in the 9/11 attacks were all white males?

Is what she said offensive? Absolutely yes. Telling the families of the victims that their loved ones' murders were justified is deeply offensive. AFAIC any speech that attempts to diminish the suffering and tragedy of that day is offensive. Those people who worked in the towers, the passengers in the planes and the first responders - they didn't deserve what happened to them, and they do not deserve to have their memories besmirched by some opportunistic, swivel-eyed feminazi* especially during their week of remembrance.

Should she have been taken to task for what she said? Definitely - her bosses ought have ripped her a new one for her idiocy. Should she have been fired? I'm 50/50 on that, but would not argue against it if she was.


* Oh, and before you get your panties in a bunch about my use of the term "feminazi", I use it specifically to mean "An extremist, radical, militant feminist who is intolerant of opposing views and/or who espouses a philosophy that women should be dominant over men."

I believe in gender equality, NOT gender superiority!

 

[lionking]

Did I?

Really?

Are you talking about the link posted by d4m10n re: Jenn M Jackson? If so, you must be confusing me with someone else. I have made absolutely no mention of her whatsoever. I have not even commented on her one way or the other.

However, since you asked, if you want my view of her, she is a ******* idiot who needs to keep her racist, froot-loopy opinions to herself, and not infect her students with that kind poison. Does she really think that all the 2,977 people who died and the 6000+ injured, in the 9/11 attacks were all white males?

Is what she said offensive? Absolutely yes. Telling the families of the victims that their loved ones' murders were justified is deeply offensive. AFAIC any speech that attempts to diminish the suffering and tragedy of that day is offensive. Those people who worked in the towers, the passengers in the planes and the first responders - they didn't deserve what happened to them, and they do not deserve to have their memories besmirched by some opportunistic, swivel-eyed feminazi* especially during their week of remembrance.

Should she have been taken to task for what she said? Definitely - her bosses ought have ripped her a new one for her idiocy. Should she have been fired? I'm 50/50 on that, but would not argue against it if she was.


* Oh, and before you get your panties in a bunch about my use of the term "feminazi", I use it specifically to mean "An extremist, radical, militant feminist who is intolerant of opposing views and/or who espouses a philosophy that women should be dominant over men."

I believe in gender equality, NOT gender superiority!

Fair enough. I was reading between the lines, but I think I had a reasonable belief to do so. The latest Syracuse event was posted in the context of the earlier. As I didn’t see you condemning Jackson, while condemning the unnamed professor, I assumed you must have given her Twitter the tick. Instead it looks like you just missed Jackson’s tweet.

So apologies.

 

[angrysoba]

ETA: and I would demand that a Professor writing a scholarly paper or teaching syllabus would use the correct term for the current pandemic... Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) - I would accept Covid-19 later in the paper so long as the full correct name is used at some point early in the paper.

Nitpick: SARS-CoV2 is the name of the virus. Covid-19 is the name of the disease.

 

[smartcooky]

Nitpick: SARS-CoV2 is the name of the virus. Covid-19 is the name of the disease.

You got me on a technicality

 

[phiwum]

Oh, I don't know... how about... the last one you posted!

The school’s announcement did not include the professor’s name or describe the language used but The Tab Syracuse, a social media account that covers Syracuse University news, posted a photo of a syllabus that references the coronavirus as both the “Wuhan flu” and “Chinese Communist Party Virus.”

Syracuse’s full statement said:

“Syracuse University unequivocally condemns racism and xenophobia and rejects bigotry, hate and intolerance of any kind.

The derogatory language used by a professor on his course syllabus is damaging to the learning environment for our students and offensive to Chinese, international and Asian-Americans everywhere who have experienced hate speech, rhetoric and actions since the pandemic began.​

Dear oh dear... forgot to check what the link actually said before you posted it huh?

Oops!!

.
.

I confess I hadn't read that. One should be punished for injecting politics into a Chenier syllabus. Unlike d4m10n, that's how I regard this incident.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[d4m10n]

You'd have to ask the racist bastard who wrote that in a ******* teaching syllabus for chemistry.

You've dodged my question. Here it is again:

Is it reasonable to infer racism from associating a place name with an outbreak?

Seriously, you think that is acceptable?

There is plenty of conceptual space between perfectly acceptable and so highly unacceptable that someone should lose their health insurance during a pandemic.

How about I write a syllabus for teaching a US history class, and refer to black people as n-words, Chinese people as "chinks", Latinos as "spics" and Mexicans as "beaners".

Do you really believe these are good comparisons, given that racial epithets clearly have racial animus built in?

If you knew anything at all about history, you would know that it did NOT originate in Spain.

You literally quoted the phrase "supposed place of origin" at the top of #3463.

Can you see how that differs from actual place of origin?

 

[Dr. Keith]

Nitpick: SARS-CoV2 is the name of the virus. Covid-19 is the name of the disease.

You’d have to be a chemistry professor to get this stuff right.

 

[smartcooky]

You've dodged my question. Here it is again:

Is it reasonable to infer racism from associating a place name with an outbreak?

Yes.

There is plenty of conceptual space between perfectly acceptable and so highly unacceptable that someone should lose their health insurance during a pandemic.

This is just gobbledegook

Do you really believe these are good comparisons, given that racial epithets clearly have racial animus built in?

Yes

You literally quoted the phrase "supposed place of origin" at the top of #3463.

And?

Can you see how that differs from actual place of origin?

Nope

 

[smartcooky]

I confess I hadn't read that. One should be punished for injecting politics into a Chenier syllabus. Unlike d4m10n, that's how I regard this incident.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Of course. Trump started calling it the "China virus" because he's a ******* racist. His sycophantic disciples in the GOP followed suit

Since the Professor who is under scrutiny not only called it the "Wuhan Flu", he also called it the "Chinese Communist Party Virus", I would put money on him being at least a MAGA CHUD.

 

[d4m10n]

Is it reasonable to infer racism from associating a place name with an outbreak?

Yes.

Should the NYT fire whomever wrote this headline?

 

[smartcooky]

Should the NYT fire whomever wrote this headline?

That is a 19 month old headline, Feb 2, 2020.

Couldn't you find anything more recent? No? Well of course not. That was when the outbreak was new, and very little was known about what we were dealing with.

Nice try though!

Want to take a guess what the US Covid 19 death toll was when that article was published? I'll tell you.. it was.... 0

Want to take a guess how many cases of Covid 19 the US was dealing with when that article was published? I'll tell you.. it was.... 0


Now to answer your question. A headline like that would not get past the editor now, and if it did, I would expect heads to roll.

 

[angrysoba]

You've dodged my question. Here it is again:

Is it reasonable to infer racism from associating a place name with an outbreak?

Yes.

That would be bad news for people saying "Ebola virus", "Marburg virus", "Nipah virus", "Hendra virus" and "Lassa Fever". Most virologists, in fact would be sacked.

I'm pretty sure I have seen reputable virologists saying "Spanish flu" as well, even if the outbreak may have started in Kansas.

But those are established names and they all appear in the literature, and can and have been used without stigma, so I wouldn't say it is racist as such to use those terms

But in the charged context in which this professor used it, Wuhan Flu and Chinese Communist Party Virus is so obviously politicized and likely bigoted that I can definitely see a lecturer being disciplined for unprofessionalism.

There is not much point trying to play the "well how do we know...?" game with this one.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

That would be bad news for people saying "Ebola virus", "Marburg virus", "Nipah virus", "Hendra virus" and "Lassa Fever". Most virologists, in fact would be sacked.

I'm pretty sure I have seen reputable virologists saying "Spanish flu" as well, even if the outbreak may have started in Kansas.

But those are established names and they all appear in the literature, and can and have been used without stigma, so I wouldn't say it is racist as such to use those terms

But in the charged context in which this professor used it, Wuhan Flu and Chinese Communist Party Virus is so obviously politicized and likely bigoted that I can definitely see a lecturer being disciplined for unprofessionalism.

There is not much point trying to play the "well how do we know...?" game with this one.

Free speech and inquiry at universities and colleges is always a bit of a tightrope walk. In the interest of intellectual curiosity, these institutions usually espouse a level of intellectual freedom that seems unusual compared to other spheres. Then again, we know that these systems are not, in fact, free for all. The academic system is one that rewards some and not others, and plenty of levers such as the tenure system ensure that some voices are elevated while others are silenced. The multi-year tenure track is little more than an extended interview process in which an academic is evaluated on many axis, mostly on the academic rigor and merit of their work. This is explicitly an editorial process on behalf of the university.


There's a lot to be said about the nuance of what counts as legitimate scholarship and what doesn't, but this case really doesn't strike me as a good example. It's obviously not academically rigorous.

"Wuhan Flu" is on its face simply unintellectual and not worthy of serious consideration. It's not an influenza virus, this is unquestionable. This term, and even more so "Chinese Communist Party Virus" does not exist in usage outside of right wing rags attempting to smear a political enemy. The usage of an academic platform for non-academic speech is blatantly inappropriate.

 

[smartcooky]

"Wuhan Flu" is on its face simply unintellectual and not worthy of serious consideration. It's not an influenza virus, this is unquestionable. This term, and even more so "Chinese Communist Party Virus" does not exist in usage outside of right wing rags attempting to smear a political enemy. The usage of an academic platform for non-academic speech is blatantly inappropriate.

But in the charged context in which this professor used it, Wuhan Flu and Chinese Communist Party Virus is so obviously politicized and likely bigoted that I can definitely see a lecturer being disciplined for unprofessionalism.

There is not much point trying to play the "well how do we know...?" game with this one.

Exactly, but you see, even if you are 99.999999% sure he is a racist SOB, if there is even a 0.000001% chance that he's not, benefit of the doubt MUST be given, and we have to be fair and balanced for both si......

....oh yuck, I just about want to puke even thinking about that pathetic apologist crap!

 

[TurkeysGhost]

That would be bad news for people saying "Ebola virus", "Marburg virus", "Nipah virus", "Hendra virus" and "Lassa Fever". Most virologists, in fact would be sacked.

I'm pretty sure I have seen reputable virologists saying "Spanish flu" as well, even if the outbreak may have started in Kansas.

But it's easy to understand why modern naming schemes are increasingly differing from this older system. Naming the disease after location of first discovery is an imprecise system and perpetuates misunderstandings.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

This is another example of the "cancel culture" warriors complaining about a standard of free speech that has never existed.

Outside of self-published crank rags, editorial decisions have always remained an important element of must serious thought, either academically or journalistically. Making assessments about what does or does not get published is a huge part of these systems. Editors at newspapers have more influence on viewpoint at a given publication than those writing the articles. Likewise the academic system that elevates or diminishes specific academics has more impact than individual scholars.

Cancel culture warriors will try to frame their complaints as one criticizing the very existence of these editorial standards which have always existed, but what they are really complaining about is that their preferred world-view is no longer receiving preferential treatment that is once did. They mourn the loss of a system where their preferred bigotries have been treated as acceptable, while the controversial opinions of their ideological enemies have routinely been shut out.

These people are losing in the clash of ideas and being relegated to increasing irrelevancy. Instead of re-evaluating their positions, they are attacking the legitimacy of the system itself and proposing that the very act of judgement or editorial/academic standards is improper.

There is no better example of this than Beri Weiss, who once bragged about her role in running out anti-zionist academic voices at her university, but now makes a steady living crying that cancel culture won't let her brand of conservative opinion run unopposed.