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Merged Australian Politics / Australian election

lionking said:
The Queensland coroner has just made a stupid decision. He has declared that the weiambilla police killings were not a terrorist attack because the killers were motivated by delusional religious beliefs.

How would you describe jihadist attacks?

Coroners are usually the voice of reason here. Not this idiot.

www.sbs.com.au

Wieambilla police shootings 'not a terrorist act', Queensland coroner says

An inquest last year heard expert evidence that the Trains engaged in terrorism that was religiously motivated.
www.sbs.com.au www.sbs.com.au
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Well...

The Trains did not actively seek to harm or intimidate anybody before the police showed up. Sure, they were heavily armed, religiously indoctrinated, and had plenty of screws loose, enough to not give a ◊◊◊◊ about shooting a cop. Same conditions as many religious terrorists elsewhere. But they did not actively seek to "terrorise" as per the Qld legal definition.

Here's the report section about that:
The Trains fortified their property and wanted to kill any police officer that entered rather than influence or intimidate the Queensland government, Ryan said.
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It would seem to me they were using some kind of "castle doctrine" excuse rather than active terrorism - cross my doorstop, copper, and see what happens! The coroner's subsequent comments seem to be addressing exactly that situation.
 
lionking said:
The Queensland coroner has just made a stupid decision. He has declared that the weiambilla police killings were not a terrorist attack because the killers were motivated by delusional religious beliefs.

How would you describe jihadist attacks?
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To be clear, they clearly suffered a shared delusional psychiatric disorder. It presented as extreme Christian premillennialism, but it would have been equally a psychiatric disorder if it had nothing to do with religion. Religion is not, by itself, a diagnosable mental illness.
 
arthwollipot said:
To be clear, they clearly suffered a shared delusional psychiatric disorder. It presented as extreme Christian premillennialism, but it would have been equally a psychiatric disorder if it had nothing to do with religion. Religion is not, by itself, a diagnosable mental illness.
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I dunno where the Coroner is getting this- they were classic 'sovcits' in their anti-authority stance and rhetoric...
Nothing to do with religion at all (in fact they were outliers in that they were LESS religious than many of their fellow group members- and yes, they were most certainly a group, many of their members are still hanging around towns in the area)...

And the cops most certainly had justification in entering- the original complaint was that the family hadn't heard from one of them in months and was concerned about their welfare.... Welfare checks ARE a police concern- and that they HAD a huge armory (totally illegal) would have also been reason for a police presence (indeed it was the reason that so few police initially turned up- the welfare check- they were just there to check up on the families concerns, had they known of the illegal weapons cache, they would have turned up in much larger numbers and appropriately armed...)

Their beliefs were (and still are) shared by many others in their little group of fellow 'sovcits'- who were extremely prominent in the covid times, being regularly seen putting up antvax posters, as well as being anti mask or any other containment measures- we in the area were all too aware of them.... they had a sign up on a members property in the main street for a long time... (I'll have to have a gander through my old pics, I took a photo of it at the time...) not just an A4 piece of paper- this was a full on 'billboard' over a couple of metres tall.... yeah, we were ALL too aware of these nutters and that they did what they did wasn't that unexpected by some of us at all....

Basically IMHO, the Coroner is full of ◊◊◊◊, and doesn't have a clue as to just how widespread this nonsense is in certain parts of the community....
If its a shared delusional psychiatric disorder then there's a good 20-30 people in just a tiny town and its surrounds who ALL have it.... and millions worldwide....
 
Norman Alexander said:
The Trains did not actively seek to harm or intimidate anybody before the police showed up. Sure, they were heavily armed, religiously indoctrinated, and had plenty of screws loose, enough to not give a ◊◊◊◊ about shooting a cop. Same conditions as many religious terrorists elsewhere.
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Total BS...
Them (and the group they were part of) had been anti authority for a LONG time beforehand- and they still exist, and lately have been making a resurgence locally....

Sovereign Citizens (sovcits), antivaxers during Covid, they had PLENTY of runins with locals and the law in the area, and they and other members of their group had been banned from the local Facebook group after repeated threats against other posters and even admin, as well as plenty of locals wouldn't have anything to do with them...

And I don't know where the Coroner got this 'religious' crap from- they were LESS religious than many other locals!!!!- its a disease imho alright- religion rots your brain....

I'm wondering just where this Coroner got their info from- it sure as hell wasn't anything what is the reality.... (I know they didn't visit the area, thats for sure- in a town of 1500 people, we all hear EVERYTHING that happens....)

The Coroner also seems unaware that just a few weeks afterwards, another member of the groups kids took potshots at the cops AGAIN...
 
Dabop said:
Total BS...
Them (and the group they were part of) had been anti authority for a LONG time beforehand- and they still exist, and lately have been making a resurgence locally....

Sovereign Citizens (sovcits), antivaxers during Covid, they had PLENTY of runins with locals and the law in the area, and they and other members of their group had been banned from the local Facebook group after repeated threats against other posters and even admin, as well as plenty of locals wouldn't have anything to do with them...

And I don't know where the Coroner got this 'religious' crap from- they were LESS religious than many other locals!!!!- its a disease imho alright- religion rots your brain....

I'm wondering just where this Coroner got their info from- it sure as hell wasn't anything what is the reality.... (I know they didn't visit the area, thats for sure- in a town of 1500 people, we all hear EVERYTHING that happens....)

The Coroner also seems unaware that just a few weeks afterwards, another member of the groups kids took potshots at the cops AGAIN...
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No disputing AT ALL they were despicable and insane and very dangerous, and mixed with disgusting people online. And they were indeed weird AF. But they were not terrorists by legal definition.
 
Didn't meant it to look like I was saying you were telling BS- just thats what the entire Coroners Report is- total BS......

They were notorious in the area, many locals had had run ins with them (as had the police previously, which is why they sent both utes, not just one, and both with a double staffing to boot...)- they KNEW that they would be a handful to deal with- they had experience with them after all...

Thy just didn't expect them to go completely fullon insane crazy and start shooting.....

Quite frankly, that report is a complete fabrication- they weren't religious (far less so than many others in the area, thats for sure)- just full on sovcit crazies....

They were notorious in the area as like most sovcits- they were in the habit of buying unregistered older cars out of Toowoomba or Brisbane, and driving them around unregistered (cause thats just more 'government theft' paying for rego grrrr)- and had several people looking for some way of getting money off them after they hit their vehicles- no rego, no insurance, and as much as sovcits love to talk about 'honour' they certainly have none and won't pay for the damage they cause.... (another reason they (and several other members of their little group) were already well known to the cops- they had been pulled up regularly in the past... unregistered cars with no insurance, and they mostly have lost their licences to boot for nonpayment of fines.... so yeah, the cops knew them well...)

And also well known with local businesses for causing issues (especially in the Covid era) as they were (of course) full on anti vaxers and anti maskers....
 
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I'm just wondering if THAT is the reason why this report is so 'off the planet' BS????

The courts in Australia have been well behind other countries in dealing with the sovcits 'threat' giving them chance after chance after chance after chance after chance, with never more than a minor 'slap on the wrist' penalty...

(indeed I wonder how many unrego drivers are really 'true believers'- or just know that getting caught driving unrego'd is a major fine, and even possible jail time for repeaters, but 'sovcits' get away with it time after time, with nothing more than losing their shitbox and they just go out and buy another....)

IF they had been dealt with more appropriately by the courts in the first place, then this (and the similar Victorian case) likely neither would have even happened....

So yeah, in that sense, the blood of those people (officers and civilians) is entirely on the magistrates who have repeatedly let them off with minor (or no ) penalty time after time.....

(and its not as if they have learned anything, the courts here are STILL treating sovcits as 'dont punish them, they are just misunderstood' special cases...)

We are well behind the Canadian and UK court systems especially, hell even the US courts are (for once) ahead of the Australian court system in dealing with them...
 
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Dabop said:
We are well behind the Canadian and UK court systems especially, hell even the US courts are (for once) ahead of the Australian court system in dealing with them...
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There are no end of YouTube videos of US courts dealing with sov cits. Many are thrown into jail for contempt of court, some for weeks.
 
Dabop said:
Didn't meant it to look like I was saying you were telling BS- just thats what the entire Coroners Report is- total BS......

They were notorious in the area, many locals had had run ins with them (as had the police previously, which is why they sent both utes, not just one, and both with a double staffing to boot...)- they KNEW that they would be a handful to deal with- they had experience with them after all...

Thy just didn't expect them to go completely fullon insane crazy and start shooting.....

Quite frankly, that report is a complete fabrication- they weren't religious (far less so than many others in the area, thats for sure)- just full on sovcit crazies....

They were notorious in the area as like most sovcits- they were in the habit of buying unregistered older cars out of Toowoomba or Brisbane, and driving them around unregistered (cause thats just more 'government theft' paying for rego grrrr)- and had several people looking for some way of getting money off them after they hit their vehicles- no rego, no insurance, and as much as sovcits love to talk about 'honour' they certainly have none and won't pay for the damage they cause.... (another reason they (and several other members of their little group) were already well known to the cops- they had been pulled up regularly in the past... unregistered cars with no insurance, and they mostly have lost their licences to boot for nonpayment of fines.... so yeah, the cops knew them well...)

And also well known with local businesses for causing issues (especially in the Covid era) as they were (of course) full on anti vaxers and anti maskers....
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I'm sure that's all true. Even down south here, we have long heard that the Toowoomba region is a hotbed of dangerous nutters, many with guns, and many weird religious cults, etc.

But the coroner was dealing with the police murders by the Trains specifically, not all of these other nutcases in the region. So he probably had to be restrained in what he could say, legally.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I'm sure that's all true. Even down south here, we have long heard that the Toowoomba region is a hotbed of dangerous nutters, many with guns, and many weird religious cults, etc.

But the coroner was dealing with the police murders by the Trains specifically, not all of these other nutcases in the region. So he probably had to be restrained in what he could say, legally.
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The funny thing is that Toowoomba isn't even considered 'local' (and yeah, even by our standards, its considered full of weirdos lol- lots of UFO cults and the like there lol)- its literally like saying the Australian Federal Parliament meets in the Sydney Opera House every day- its 'that close' to being the same in accuracy lol...
(Toowoomba is literally over two hours drive from me, and where the shootings happened is another hours drive again...)
1763930682089.png
Always been a big fan of the Canberra Bulldogs lol
1763930906910.png

:ROFLMAO:

The biggest issue is that he has released false information- which he should have KNOWN was incorrect (he IS the bloody coroner after all, if he can't find out simple facts like the fact they weren't 'religious extremists' (in fact they were by many locals standards practically heathens lol :eek:) then he should be sacked, as he's obviously not very good at his job is he????)

Especially as the system he is part of is in itself a major part of the problem in itself (with the continued ignoring of the whole ideological sovcit 'system' by the courts - it looks a LOT more like CYA and less about 'finding out the truth'- why do you think the families involved are so disappointed in the results of the inquiry????

And the nutcases involved were NOT acting independently- they were a part of a larger group that still exists, and is still active in the region (and has still MORE 'extremists' stirring up trouble, only a month or so ago, one was sprouting off about 'the government overreach about guns' AGAIN (after the Victorian sovcit went on HIS shooting rampage- that really stirred them up...)

Lots of nonsense about 'the governments coming to round them up' and calls for people to 'stand their ground', that the government was actively targeting anyone who wasn't a 'sheeple' for extermination (hell if anything, atm they are doing the exact OPPOSITE), hell some of the nuttier politicians have been doing the rounds on the facebook groups calling for slackening of gun regulations and the introduction of 'Castle Doctrine' and licence free gun ownership in Qld!!! (looking at Katter and his lot here...)

:mad:

This inquiry hasn't opened them up to public scrutiny of what they are up to, in fact its done the exact opposite, by falsely claiming it was 'just a bunch of religious nutters' in the one family and ignoring their ideology totally (just like the courts are doing), while agitating their fellow nutters in the group even further- well, we locally are expecting that sooner or later another one of them will go off.... again....
 
arthwollipot said:
Let me assure you, you are not going to get from Canberra to Circular Quay in 3 hours.
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It is 3.5 hours by Murrays bus to go between the centre of Canberra to Central Station in Sydney via Sydney airport. I agree, either do something unreasonable or it will be nearly impossible to do it in 3 hours.

Dabop - I have just reread the last few posts in this thread. Delete where you have said BS on any issue and everything else is reasonable and noone has said you are incorrect on any of your points. This includes your logic behind where you have said BS. For example you have mentioned that other locals do not consider the killers religious, but what would the killers say about their religion? The latter is something you have not addressed, but the coroner has.

Edit. Subtract a maximum of 15 minutes for by-passing the airport.
 
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rjh01 said:
It is 3.5 hours by Murrays bus to go between the centre of Canberra to Central Station in Sydney via Sydney airport. I agree, either do something unreasonable or it will be nearly impossible to do it in 3 hours.

Dabop - I have just reread the last few posts in this thread. Delete where you have said BS on any issue and everything else is reasonable and noone has said you are incorrect on any of your points. This includes your logic behind where you have said BS. For example you have mentioned that other locals do not consider the killers religious, but what would the killers say about their religion? The latter is something you have not addressed, but the coroner has.

Edit. Subtract a maximum of 15 minutes for by-passing the airport.
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you subtracted 15 mins yourself- and thats in a bloody BUS- hardly known for its 'sportscar' level of acceleration lol
(hell I used to DRIVE buses- thats where I got my MR licence, with the STA!!!)

So could a car (ANY car) shave off that 15 minutes???

Hell I suspect ALL cars (even a Russian built Lada) could do THAT lol.....


What the nutcases say about their religion means nothing- they can claim all sorts of BS- doesn't make it true.... what they DO is what counts....

Or should we accept ALL their statements as being true????
:eek:
 
Meanwhile David Pocock has introduced a bill to make it illegal to share deepfakes created without consent.

www.abc.net.au

'You should own your own face': Pocock launches AI deepfake bill

Australians who share AI deepfakes of another person without consent could be sued or fined under a new bill.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

I'm going to write to my senator to tell him to support this bill... oh wait...
 
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