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#alternativefacts

I did see some analysis of attendance and TV viewers as a proportion of the overall population (which has seen steady increases), which was interesting, but I can't for the life of me find where it was.
 
The most unnerving part for me is the hubris of the claim. Conway is bluntly saying 'We're telling you what is real now'
 
Spindrift said:
The most unnerving part is that there are people who will accept the lies.
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Are there? It doesn't seem to me like this particular lie has had any traction, but I might not know what the hinterlands think.
 
marplots said:
The commonest example is the value of a $5 bill. It's not in the paper or the ink, it's in our shared belief that $5 is worth, well, five dollars. This is as much a fact as any other.

It may be uncomfortable in a forum where an objective epistemology is held in such high regard, but there's an easy fix. Just think of it a bit meta.

1) There is some fact about the world.
2) Access to this fact is restricted, either because of insufficient access to the past or by way of inherent ambiguity.
3) What people believe about the fact is also factual. That is, we can find out what those beliefs are, and we can do so in the present and experimentally.
4) This second-order fact (beliefs about the first fact) serves the same role in societal discourse as the original fact would, if it were current and accepted.
5) "Of all things the measure is Man, of the things that are, that they are, and of the things that are not, that they are not"
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The value of the $5 bill is established economically by well defined means in relation to other currency and commodities. It is guided by operational definitions. When operational definitions are put in place, subjectivity is greatly reduced.
 
Spindrift said:
The most unnerving part is that there are people who will accept the lies.
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They are not lies, they are government validated truth.

Just look at Stalin for how the past is flexible and can be changed to fit with current needs. That is what trump is after.
 
phiwum said:
Are there? It doesn't seem to me like this particular lie has had any traction, but I might not know what the hinterlands think.
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The thing I heard was more "Of course trump supporters couldn't be there, they have jobs"
 
phiwum said:
Are there? It doesn't seem to me like this particular lie has had any traction, but I might not know what the hinterlands think.
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Anecdotal - In my local coffee shop, the regulars tend to be Trump supporters. On Sunday morning, overhead one guy saying that "It was the biggest inaugural ever, they just didn't take the photos at the right time." Lot's of nodding of heads and "damn media". And this isn't the hinterlands, I live in suburban CT.
 
mgidm86 said:
Semantics - bad ones but that's all it is, I think. What she seemed to be doing was poking fun at the media by saying they each had their own facts. "Well let's see our facts compared with yours because yours have been wrong."

That's my take on it.

I don't mind that these people are a bit (or a lot) clumsy with their speaking (if that's all it is). Who needs another forked tongue slick talking politician that lies and gets nothing done? Gawd I hope that's all this is anyways.

I read she is the first woman to successfully (win) run a presidential campaign. Any credit for that?
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What are you insane? Trump keeps feeding the public a crap sandwich and you're saying mm mmmmm good?

Yes, politicians lie. But everyone does once in a while. But Trump and his administration has taken this to a whole other level. Everything seems to be a lie.And if the Trump administration is willing to blatantly lie over something so trivial as the crowd size what else are they lying about. These 'alternative facts' is straight out of 1984. It's 'newspeak'. If you don't know what it is, look it up.
 
Spindrift said:
The most unnerving part is that there are people who will accept the lies.
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The gullible are always around, but their mouthpieces have tried to make the steaming pile plausible, if not palatable. Conway is going next-level, the gloves are off and no more pretense.
 
MostlyDead said:
It does indeed. In fact, the new most unnerving part for me is thinking 'It can't happen here'.
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It can happen anywhere. Normally I'd trust the American democratic system to be resilient enough to handle this, but with the checks and balances torn down by putting everything up for popular vote, I'm not so sure.
 
Spindrift said:
Anecdotal - In my local coffee shop, the regulars tend to be Trump supporters. On Sunday morning, overhead one guy saying that "It was the biggest inaugural ever, they just didn't take the photos at the right time." Lot's of nodding of heads and "damn media". And this isn't the hinterlands, I live in suburban CT.
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Yes, your story is just anecdotal, but it's something. I'm surprised by that reaction. I am not too far from you (Boston area), but maybe the liberal tendencies here have biased my view. Didn't think that anyone would give this pathetic lie credence.
 
acbytesla said:
What are you insane? Trump keeps feeding the public a crap sandwich and you're saying mm mmmmm good?

Yes, politicians lie. But everyone does once in a while. .
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According to the late B.B. King, even Lucille lies a little.
 
Argumemnon said:
It can happen anywhere. Normally I'd trust the American democratic system to be resilient enough to handle this, but with the checks and balances torn down by putting everything up for popular vote, I'm not so sure.
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I hope we have the fortitude and attention span to howl bloody murder for the duration. This can't become normalized, for all our sakes.
 
phiwum said:
Vulcans don't really know dick about logic. They lie a lot.
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Yeah but no one ever really calls them on it, probably because if they do they'd just drop Surak and go into a murderous rampage, and they are three times as strong as humans. That's how you normalise these kinds of things!
 
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