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#alternativefacts

marplots said:
He was duly elected doing the same shtick. Arguably, it would be wrong for him to change tactics now.

<snip>
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Anything can be argued.

This particular point was being argued by people who didn't think Trump would make a good President while he was campaigning, and his supporters argued that he was just in "campaign mode" and he'd get all serious and presidential after he won and took office.

Now that that has proven to be a sack of cow flop those same supporters are backpedaling like crazy.
 
sunmaster14 said:
There's some of that. There's also the problem that he's a bit muddled. I think his claim about the murder rate is really about the percentage rise in the murder rate in consecutive years. Not sure if it's really true that the rise from 2015 to 2016 was the largest percentage increase in 45 years, but I think it's plausible.
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Is it?:
The murder rate is defined as the number of murders and non-negligent homicides per 100,000 residents. Beginning in 1957, when the rate was 4.0 murders per 100,000 residents, the rate rose steadily to a high of 10.2 in 1980. It then steadily dropped, to 7.4 in 1996, to 6.1 in 2006, to 4.4 in 2014. It went up in 2015 to 4.9.
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There are no statistics for 2016.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ate-to-sheriffs-group/?utm_term=.46105a408819

In any case, that's not what he said, and based on his manner and tone, that's not what he believes. He seems to genuinely think America is a hellhole full of "carnage" and "the media" are lying about it. That's who sits in the White House.
 
sunmaster14 said:
There's some of that. There's also the problem that he's a bit muddled. I think his claim about the murder rate is really about the percentage rise in the murder rate in consecutive years. Not sure if it's really true that the rise from 2015 to 2016 was the largest percentage increase in 45 years, but I think it's plausible.
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It's a good thing for Trump that he has so many people ready to jump in and explain what he means when what he says in plain language isn't what he meant.

It's almost like they're trying to make excuses for his ****-ups.
 
quadraginta said:
"All" of them? That's a rather broad generalization. (Perhaps even an "alternate fact".)

Some may amount to a matter of opinion, yes, but others seem to boil down to whether or not something actually happened, or is actually true.

That there was no Bowling Green Massacre is not a matter of opinion. It is a simple, verifiable fact.

That we don't have the highest murder rate in 47 years is not a matter of opinion. It is a simple, verifiable fact.

These are the kinds of "alternative facts" under discussion.
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Except when we agree, there's no "alternative" to it. We agree. The matter doesn't arise.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
More like ignorant, with a limited vocabulary.
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Maybe so. But even that could be experienced as "trustworthy." Contrast the description with "Slick Willie" to see. In fact, I think GW had a bit of the old "too stupid to fool me" vibe in play. Maybe it's a party line thing.
 
quadraginta said:
"All" of them? That's a rather broad generalization. (Perhaps even an "alternate fact".)

Some may amount to a matter of opinion, yes, but others seem to boil down to whether or not something actually happened, or is actually true.

That there was no Bowling Green Massacre is not a matter of opinion. It is a simple, verifiable fact.

That we don't have the highest murder rate in 47 years is not a matter of opinion. It is a simple, verifiable fact.

These are the kinds of "alternative facts" under discussion.
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Good, clear and undeniable.
 
quadraginta said:
It's a good thing for Trump that he has so many people ready to jump in and explain what he means when what he says in plain language isn't what he meant.

It's almost like they're trying to make excuses for his ****-ups.
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Trump Apologetics, the list is accumulating.
 
marplots said:
Maybe so. But even that could be experienced as "trustworthy." Contrast the description with "Slick Willie" to see. In fact, I think GW had a bit of the old "too stupid to fool me" vibe in play. Maybe it's a party line thing.
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Trump, trustworthy? :jaw-dropp
 
Foolmewunz said:
There are so many threads on His Trumpiness that one doesn't know where to look for items. Has anyone mentioned Spicer joining the Fantasy Massacre team, yet. At least three separate times defending Teh Order from his noble lord he referred to (and I paraphrase) "like the victims in Boston, or in Atlanta or San Bernardino".

Atlanta?

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/08/politics/spicer-alleged-atlanta-terror-attack-trnd/index.html
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Atlanta was the victim of a 4th quarter massacre at the hands of some Patriots.
 
Puppycow said:
I realize that marplots likes to take the piss, but if anyone is curious, here's the abortion rates:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_statistics_in_the_United_States

Although it seems there is a few years delay in the data (most recent is 2013), it is lower than at any point after 1973, the year when Roe v. Wade was decided.
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If only the pro-life crowd would look at the actual measure of success, the number of abortions, instead of the manipulated measure of success, laws against abortion, I believe we could actually find common ground.
 
phiwum said:
Sorry, how is it silly?

Look, I will defend abortion rights, but not because it's obviously the right stance. It isn't obviously so. I think it is the right stance, but decent folk might well disagree, and I haven't a decisive argument that they are wrong. A being who has the same expectations of a decent life, a future of value, is being deprived of those experiences. Not too easy to dismiss this fact, I think.

(I refer, of course, to Marquis's argument here and I don't want to pretend that it is original with me.)
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Because at the moment it is not murder as it is defined in the statistics.
 
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