A Thread for Democrats Being Useless

[Norman Alexander]

In all this discussion for the Dems, it probably needs to be remembered that many of the people who voted for Trump also voted for Obama. That seems puzzling that they could switch from an educated, urbane, intelligent, progressive black candidate to a regressive, ignorant arsehole. There is also ample evidence that the Democrat turnout to vote this time was also the lowest in ages. People just didn't show up, and there has been only a little outrage about any voter suppression either. So the Dems lost out not just on votes going their way, but on lack of voters as well.

About the only reason I can possibly think of to explain this situation is that these swinging and non-voting citizens don't bother even thinking about policies and ramifications, they just follow the crowd. Almost like if their friends and family say they are going to vote a certain way, or not vote at all, then they do too without hesitation or thought. Or in a simpler term, they are frigging lazy. This is where the Dems support is suffering the most - lazy voters.

It follows that the traditional and well-meaning appeals to demographics, to the goodness of hearts, to the strengths of citizenship, to thoughtful and worthwhile policies is all going to fail if these lazy voters just sit on their arses until the next election rolls around. These lazy folks would sooner lose their jobs and their homes than do a moment's brainwork and take an hour each two years fulfill a basic civic duty. This is the problem the Democrats face and need to solve, not policy or personalities, or even the Trump-Crash that is happening.

 

[Random]

I think the majority of voters will stop will sensible measures, yes. But the Democrats can’t even concede that much. It’s part of why they lost.

Because at least some Democrats have realized that cutting loose whatever portion of their party Republicans are complaining about today might seem like good tactics, but it is a bad long-term strategy. The GOP will always have some sort of culture war bigotry they are running on, as it forces Democrats to either spend resources defending unpopular groups or throwing some of their supporters under the bus, at which point the Republicans will move on to their next target and give Democrats the same choice again.

That's how Republicans win elections. God knows its not their economic policies.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Do you honestly think the transgender panic crowd will stop there? There are thousands of years of historical oppression there, but you think they will let it go if we prohibit a small number of transgender athletes who want to compete? Do you really believe that will be it?

Yeah, it's an obvious excuse when they don't dare say they have it out for trans people, or, heck, LGBT people as a whole. Especially when trans people are just (as we all know, probably including theprestige) a scape goat and deflection, like fentanyl whenever they wanna talk about border security. Bite-sized talking points that are small and simple enough for the cultists to understand, and that can be easily spread on Xitter tweets, TV and radio propaganda shows, and MAGA rallies. As if fascists care the tiniest bit about womens' safety in locker rooms or the outcome of women's sports. If any of them watch women compete, it's to gawk at the skimpy outfits the athletes are all too often forced to wear.


...Wait, maybe that's it. They're terrified they're going to admire the body of some female runner, pole vaulter, or swimmer in a top and way too tiny shorts and realize the sex object in question is biologically male, and now they feel gay again and god they'd been working so hard to repress that.

 

[Ziggurat]

Because at least some Democrats have realized that cutting loose whatever portion of their party Republicans are complaining about today might seem like good tactics, but it is a bad long-term strategy.

You think it's a good strategy to cater to fringe activists that take unpopular positions, rather than mainstream voters?

I think you're confused about how politics works.

The GOP will always have some sort of culture war bigotry they are running on,

Again, Democrats started the trans culture war, not Republicans.

as it forces Democrats to either spend resources defending unpopular groups or throwing some of their supporters under the bus,

Not forcing trans males into women's sports isn't throwing them under the bus. And forcing them in is throwing female athletes under the bus.

That's how Republicans win elections. God knows its not their economic policies.

Republicans win on cultural issues, so let's keep giving them winning positions.

Brilliant strategy.

 

[Random]

You think it's a good strategy to cater to fringe activists that take unpopular positions, rather than mainstream voters?

I think you're confused about how politics works.

Oh, I get it. The GOP puts Dems in an effective jam with this thing. Either stand with a small number of liberals that a large portion of the population disagree with (alienating moderates and swing voters), or throw them under the bus while the GOP picks another lefty group to demonize (alienating the Democratic base). It's a very effective strategy, which is why conservatives use it over and over again.

I mean, I guess they could try to run on slashing Social Security to fund tax breaks for the rich instead...

Again, Democrats started the trans culture war, not Republicans.

Standing up to centuries of oppression and hatred is not "starting" ◊◊◊◊.

 

[Donal]

Republicans didn't start the transgender culture war.

You sure as hell did. Just like the attacks on gay marriage, CRT, DEI, and whatever other buzzword you are scared of this week its a fight you pick specifically to distract from the fact that you have nothing else. The most the Dems do is nominally expand already existing protections. So go take your bigoted nonsense to the appropriate threads.

 

[Donal]

Back to the topic at hand: Columbia graduate student Mahmoud Khalil was renditioned by ICE over the weekend. They said they were revoking his student visa due to his involvement in the pro-Palestinian protests at the university last year. One little problem. Khalil has a green card, not a student visa. That means he is a permanent resident. ICE had no jurisdiction over him. That didn't stop the agents, who refused to identify themselves or present the alleged warrant to Khalil, from threatening his pregnant wife. she is a full fledged citizen by the way. Khalil was shipped off to an ICE detention center in Louisiana, despite there being 2 such facilities in the Greater New York area.

Keep in mind, there is no evidence or even formal accusation of any crime. Khalil is being punished with illegal deportation for simply voicing an opinion the government doesn't like. Vague accusations of being a "Hamas supporter" are all they can provide.

The response from Democratic leadership has been crickets:

Chuck Schumer, the Senate minority leader and senior Senator from New York : nothing
Kirsten Gillibrand, junior Senator from New York: nothing
Hakeem Jeffries, House minority leader: nothing
Adriano Espallait, who represents the district Columbia is in and where Khalil lives, who not too long ago proclaimed "I will never bend the knee to this administration": nothing
Columbia University: nothing

It doesn't matter what your opinion of the Gaza conflict or Khalil are. He committed no crime to be apprehended by any law enforcement agency and ICE had no business touching him. This is a trial balloon. If they can make a green card holder disappear, how much longer until they can do it to an American citizen?

Fortunately, at least the courts are doing something that resembles protecting our freedoms. A federal judge has halted his deportation for now

 

[Ziggurat]

Standing up to centuries of oppression and hatred is not "starting" ◊◊◊◊.

You can fairly categorize prohibiting discrimination against trans people in housing and employment as standing up to oppression. And guess what? There isn't widespread objection to this.

You cannot fairly categorize forcing women to compete against men in sports as standing up to centuries of oppression. You cannot fairly categorize housing male sex offenders with female prisoners as standing up to centuries of oppression. It is more accurately categorized as a continuation of male oppression of females. And the widespread objection to these things is fully warranted. Democrats chose the wrong side.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The Mahmoud Khalil case is almost a too-on-the-nose recreation of the saying "First they came for X and I said nothing, because I wasn't ..."

It is literally an extrajudicial detention of a legal resident for purely political reasons.
Unless heads roll for this, we will see many more attempts like this, even if Khalil gets released and to return to his very pregnant wife.

Dems, but also the University of Columbia, are proving themselves to be cowards in the face of authoritarianism.

 

[Donal]

Democrats and the media also spent the last year and a half demonizing these protestors. That will make it easier for the average person to go along with this fascism.

 

[Random]

You can fairly categorize prohibiting discrimination against trans people in housing and employment as standing up to oppression. And guess what? There isn't widespread objection to this.

You cannot fairly categorize forcing women to compete against men in sports as standing up to centuries of oppression. You cannot fairly categorize housing male sex offenders with female prisoners as standing up to centuries of oppression. It is more accurately categorized as a continuation of male oppression of females. And the widespread objection to these things is fully warranted. Democrats chose the wrong side.

I freely admit to not having all the answers, but the questions of transgender sports participation and transgender prison housing (see how the terms of debate keep expanding?) are inevitable questions due to an increasing number of transgender individuals feeling comfortable enough to come out of the closet and participate freely in society.

If your answer to these questions is that they should stay in the closet and not participate freely in society, you can ◊◊◊◊ right off.

 

[Ziggurat]

I freely admit to not having all the answers, but the questions of transgender sports participation and transgender prison housing (see how the terms of debate keep expanding?) are inevitable questions due to an increasing number of transgender individuals feeling comfortable enough to come out of the closet and participate freely in society.

If your answer to these questions is that they should stay in the closet and not participate freely in society, you can ◊◊◊◊ right off.

Who said that was the only alternative? Nobody did.

 

[Ziggurat]

Democrats and the media also spent the last year and a half demonizing these protestors.

I wonder why advocating for terrorism and genocide looks bad to the public.

 

[Donal]

That's what I've been saying. Siding with Israel's genocide campaign cost Harris the election. Now, scurry back to a thread where yo ucan deny January 6 happened.

 

[Random]

Who said that was the only alternative? Nobody did.

Then how do you think it ends? You say Democrats should not support this small minorities right to participate in sports because it hurts their electoral chances, but then what? The enemies of freedom will never stop with one small concession. Getting more concessions is what they live for.

 

[Ziggurat]

If they can make a green card holder disappear, how much longer until they can do it to an American citizen?

I don't think you understand what it means to "disappear" someone. They didn't make him disappear, and they aren't trying to. He's in custody, and in contact with his lawyers. If he gets deported, his location will still be known. That's not disappearing him.

 

[Donal]

Deporting him will be illegal. Stop excusing fascism. Or, o take it to a thread for excusing fascism. Once again, this is not that thread.

 

[Ziggurat]

Then how do you think it ends? You say Democrats should not support this small minorities right to participate in sports because it hurts their electoral chances, but then what? The enemies of freedom will never stop with one small concession. Getting more concessions is what they live for.

You think that logic doesn't apply in the other direction? Oh, let the self-identified trans woman compete against women, it's just a small concession. But it won't end there. It hasn't ended there. It ends when there are no more protections for biological women.

In point of fact, though, it's quite easy to see where it ends going the other way. You extend the same protections against discrimination to trans people as you do to men and women. If you don't permit sex-based discrimination in a particular context (such as housing and employment), then you don't permit discrimination against trans people. If you do permit sex-based discrimination in a particular context (such as sports), then you can discriminate with trans people based on their sex and not on their status as trans. That's where it ends. But that's not good enough for the radical activists.

 

[theprestige]

Deporting him will be illegal.

Not if they convict him of a felony first.

Anyway, color me disappointed. I'm 100% of revoking student visas and deporting foreign students who promote terrorism and terrorist groups. But it's a colossal screwup to target an ex-student green card holder for the flagship case. Can't get it right for getting it wrong, it seems. But this isn't the thread for Republicans being useless. Maybe we should declare Khalil an honorary Democrat, and examine whether he's being useless or not.

 

[Ziggurat]

Deporting him will be illegal.

That remains to be seen. We haven't seen the case against him yet, so we cannot evaluate its merits.

Stop excusing fascism. Or, o take it to a thread for excusing fascism. Once again, this is not that thread.

Either the Khalil case is on topic, or it's not. If it's not, why are you complaining to me? I didn't bring it up. And if it is, sorry, but you don't get to claim only one side is on topic.

Plus, pointing out that you were engaged in ridiculous and false hyperbole isn't excusing fascism. It's pointing out that you were engaged in ridiculous and false hyperbole. Note that you haven't actually tried to argue that they did in fact disappear him. You've basically conceded my point, you're just butt hurt that I made it.