Vision From Feeling

Status
Not open for further replies.
GeeMack:
We could rehash your miserable failure with Wayne. You threw that piece of crap in here, but don't you think it's been kicked around enough to make everyone's shoes stink? But... again you demonstrate that you completely misunderstand the position you've put yourself in. You, Anita, must show that you are able to provide accurate medical information. And you haven't shown that. Nobody has to show how you have provided inaccurate information. If you were really a science student you'd know that.
Click to expand...
I already know that I haven't provided any evidence in support of the paranormal claim yet. I already know that my past experiences were not witnessed or documented by skeptics or scientists and weren't made into evidence. I already know that my past experiences are only compelling to me since I and the persons who were present for a reading (usually only the persons being read) were the only ones there. I already know, I already know.

I definitely did not fail with Wayne. He wrote *a list* of his health problems which, turns out only contained a past accident which he has fully recovered from which only has the scar after it and no sensations of discomfort or other permanent damage or discomfort. That was all. Then I was fully expecting logically there to be a lot of health problems with the person but I couldn't find any no matter how hard I tried. I tuned up the "ability" to desperately try to find at least "one of those things on his list" and all I could sense was a very insignificantly tired left shoulder, and the adam's apple. So I concluded that I found nothing wrong. And, turns out, there was nothing wrong to be found. Just a scar. Which I missed. And that is not a failure. I did very well. :p
So, since you haven't been able to demonstrate any extra-sensory abilities, and you've made it abundantly clear that you aren't able or willing to do so, why don't you save the tiny shred of dignity you have left (boy, oh boy, am I going out on a limb there), and just 'fess up. Admit you've failed and we can all have a good laugh. Uh, if you haven't noticed, we're all laughing at you anyway. Wouldn't it be a much more pleasant experience if you were able to laugh with us rather than being the brunt of this horrible joke you've created?
Click to expand...
I haven't even had much chances to demonstrate any extra-sensory abilities! I've only had one chance and that was with Wayne! And he didn't have anything wrong with him! According to my perceptions the man was in beautiful health, better than average! (His heart, lungs, liver and digestive system all looked absolutely wonderful and healthy. It was a delight to see.)

But Hoooneeeyyy!!! I am most willing to demonstrate and to be put to the test! I am able to demonstrate it!!! Bring me some people with hidden health problems! I haven't failed anything! There is no joke! I perceive medical information when I look at people! Bring me some people and I will show you what I mean! :p
So to review... here's the consensus at this point. Pretty much everyone here has been listening to you babbling for just short of three months now. And as far as I can tell, everyone has come to the conclusion that you're either seriously mentally ill, or that you're simply a liar.
Click to expand...
I am neither mentally ill nor a liar! You however are very impatient. :p
Which do you think it is, Anita?
Click to expand...
Impatient? :confused:
 
LONGTABBER PE said:
Well, VFF, heres the deal. I am a PhD ( Engineering) and have been doing "experiments" and reporting on custom designs since before you were born. I can recognize a farce from a mile away. I'm simply calling your hand on it.

>>>I look at people and I perceive health information. My perceptions have had apparent correlation to the actual health of persons. There is no delusion or scam involved in that. I am merely working toward a scientific explanation. It could be unintentional cold reading. It could be ESP. It could be that the accuracy is not as good as it had seemed to be once in a controlled test situation. I want to find out.

According to YOU. You wouldnt know a "scientific explanation" if it came up and hugged you. What you are doing is telling a tale.

>>>It is funny reading your analyses.

Maybe but those "analyses" have sent a lot of bad guys to jail, been proven in various courts and in my field.

>>>I'm just out to falsify a non-ability, or learn more about an ability.
There is no scam. I'm basing this investigation on my experiences that I can't explain on my own and therefore need skeptics and scientists and a study and tests.

No ( see 1 above) you are out to scam. See, you violate the basic IMRAD method of study/report writing.

You are starting from a false premise that you actually have these abilities you claim. ( putting the cart before the horse as those claims are unsubstantiated). The "M" in IMRAD is method.

Heres the first step ( which you talk around and skip) and that is to establish whether in fact you actually have an ability to study or now. ( I see the subtle inferences and know how the game is played but you arent going to skip first base here)

So, your first method is to show you have an ability- heres your test.

Get the skeptics ( or anyone but have an accredited proctor) to ( WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE) select a group of people with affidavits of conditions. Have a few bogies thrown in as well.

They select and arrange the study according to your parameters and you sit in a room and "cold" meet them. You dont see them before hand and theydont speak.

We will see in short order if you have any ability at all and that will determine the course ( if any) of the rest.
Click to expand...

Your problem is that you know too much, probably signal detection theory and all that science. And maybe what warm reading is and the need to control for sensory leakage.
But Anita is not doing that sort of sciencey stuff, she is doing a "study", or maybe will do one eventually. In her "study", she doesn't count misses, even if the subjects are missing a limb or two. False alarms, like "something in the shoulder" don't count either. Only hits, even if they occur one time in 50 guesses, count.
 
Farencue:
I have a question for Longtabber PE if you dont mind - as an experienced investigator what are your observations of Anita's written English considering that English is not her first language? I have noticed a few things that give me reason to agree with you that she is an out and out scammer.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Hi there. Welcome to our wonderful JREF thread. We've already had this discussion before:

Miss Kitt #766
Moochie #837
UncaYimmy #838
TheSkepticCanuck #839
Moochie #846
desertgal #847

My offer still holds, that anyone who wants to call me and hear my *Swedish accent* is free to PM me and get my number. :p
Or if someone just wants to talk. Would be nice.
 
Last edited:
LONGTABBER PE:
Sorry but I cant really say without meeting the subject
Click to expand...
Who are you calling a subject?!
Well, VFF, heres the deal. I am a PhD ( Engineering) and have been doing "experiments" and reporting on custom designs since before you were born. I can recognize a farce from a mile away. I'm simply calling your hand on it.
Click to expand...
Wonderful! I do like an Engineer! There is no farce. I'm having a study with the skeptics hopefully this Sunday February 8 after which - unless the claim has been falsified at that study - I will arrange another study in a public area with the health questionnaires. Which should all hopefully lead to a testable more specific claim so that a test can be arranged. You are of course free to suspect a farce and you can look real hard and try to find one but I dare you since you are never going to find what is not there. :p
No ( see 1 above) you are out to scam.
Click to expand...
I assure you that I am not out to scam! You skeptics are impatient, that's all.
You are starting from a false premise that you actually have these abilities you claim.
Click to expand...
No, I am working under the assumption that it is more likely the case of unintentional cold reading or no accuracy at all.
So, your first method is to show you have an ability- heres your test. Get the skeptics ( or anyone but have an accredited proctor) to ( WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE) select a group of people with affidavits of conditions. Have a few bogies thrown in as well. They select and arrange the study according to your parameters and you sit in a room and "cold" meet them. You dont see them before hand and theydont speak. We will see in short order if you have any ability at all and that will determine the course ( if any) of the rest.
Click to expand...
But I would love to do that!

*I like the way you don't use these, ' , in your words. Like dont instead of don't. But since you are an Engineer Ph.D. I can only admire you and conclude that your disuse of those just makes you seem mysterious. Like you know something. You're cool either way. Or, youre.* :p

Jeff Corey:
I think we have your number already.
Click to expand...
Then why don't you give me a call? :p That way you could ask me questions and I couldn't *avoid questions* or *hide* or what ever you people think I am doing here. You could ask me anything you like, and post it all here. Would be productive. UncaYimmy and me always were more productive speaking live over a chat. :)
 
Last edited:
VisionFromFeeling said:
I definitely did not fail with Wayne. He wrote *a list* of his health problems which, turns out only contained a past accident which he has fully recovered from which only has the scar after it and no sensations of discomfort or other permanent damage or discomfort. That was all. Then I was fully expecting logically there to be a lot of health problems with the person but I couldn't find any no matter how hard I tried. I tuned up the "ability" to desperately try to find at least "one of those things on his list" and all I could sense was a very insignificantly tired left shoulder, and the adam's apple. So I concluded that I found nothing wrong. And, turns out, there was nothing wrong to be found. Just a scar. Which I missed. And that is not a failure. I did very well.
Click to expand...


He had one medical issue. You completely missed it. You failed. 100%. I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt by considering that you might have a mental illness, Anita. You can fix mentally ill. But it's looking more and more like several of these other people are right in their assessment. Maybe you really are nothing but a side show freak wannabe, a simple lying carnie.
 
Thankyou Longtabber PE for your reply.
And thankyou for the welcome to the thread Anita. I looked at the posts you referred me to and while I appreciate that you may have already had a discussion on English being your second language, that is not the issue I was intending to raise with Longtabber.
 
GeeMack:
He had one medical issue. You completely missed it. You failed. 100%. I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt by considering that you might have a mental illness, Anita. You can fix mentally ill. But it's looking more and more like several of these other people are right in their assessment. Maybe you really are nothing but a side show freak wannabe, a simple lying carnie.
Click to expand...
My paranormal claim then is not to detect the scar after an injured diaphragm. I do not consider having a mental illness because I didn't detect a particular scar! It was not even consistent with my claim! How rude! Wait until I've read more people and actually claimed to detect health information and then we can have a field day discussing the implications of the results! ;)
 
Farencue said.
"I have noticed a few things that give me reason to agree with you that she is an out and out scammer."

Welcome Farencue.

What are the things that you have noticed?
 
Last edited:
Jeff Corey:
Don't you have a class tomorrow at 8:30 AM? Better get some sleep if you want to maintain your 4.0 average.
Click to expand...
No it's the other way around. In order to maintain the GPA I'm staying up late. Have four homeworks to do. So I'll be here at the same time.
 
Last edited:
Hello Jonquil
This is from Anita's webpage in the Challenge section:

December 10 2008 - I've found a local skeptics group and joined them. I attend my first meeting with them on December 29th. Although I am a paranormal claimant I can't wait to enter a room full of skeptics! I look forward to skepticism and critique and expect to learn a lot from it, also I will be giving off free demonstrations of what I can do! (It is always free.)

Bolding mine but I smell scam. Also from the challenge section:

January 27 2009 - I had asked the representative of a mall whether I could have the study there and the answer was negative, which is somewhat what I expected since the subject of my study is controversial. I am now asking the City of Charlotte Parks and Recreation about whether my planned study is in accordance with law and whether to obtain a permit to have the study in a public area of Charlotte. I do not expect any shop- or restaurant owner to allow a paranormal study at their premises. In the way that it is designed the study more resembles a survey than a psychic reading. My study is more like asking people off the street, "Are you a Republican or a Democrat?", than seating them by a table and reading their palm and telling their fortune. There is no speaking between me and the volunteers, the answers in the health questionnaires by the volunteers remains entirely anonymous and not linked to their person, and the volunteers never find out what my perceptions of them were. And no money is involved of course (and never will be). So, how I see it, the volunteers are at no risk of harm by volunteering for the study. It is not a display or a practice of paranormal abilities. It is a study, designed to falsify a paranormal claim if one does not exist, and, if the results of the study allow, a more elaborate test can later be done and under even more controlled and even more careful circumstances.

Bolding mine but trying to wade through the wordowaffle is hard work for a beginner such as myself. I would just like to clarify though Anita, was the reading of the now famous Wayne at a restaurant/pizza joint? Were you "giving off free demonstrations" as you stated on your website when you sat with Wayne or was it part of the study? You must have been surprised that the the restaurant owner didnt object?
Also Anita why did you go against everyones advice not to delay proceedings by writing to the parks people if you yourself dont believe there will be any harm to volunteers in doing the study?

Jonquill, I notice that Anita uses a lot of what I call "Americanisms" in her written speech, I thought it unusual for someone who has not been in the country a good while. An example of an "Americanism" is "you bet" along with a few others but of course I could be wrong.
 
Anita,
In all seriousness, you need more sleep and less time wasted here if you want to learn the hard science you are trying to master.
Bon chance.
 
Last edited:
I think Anita has been in America for a couple of years, so I guess she would start using the same expressions as the locals.

Wayne was a informal volunteer at a skeptics club meeting that she attended.
 
I foresee Anita's future in this equation:

Greta Alexander x Dr Leon E Curry = Anita Ikonen
loved and revered by fire fighters, police officers, the science community, the medical community and the gullible general public.
Oh, just out of interest did anyone know that Dr Leon E Curry is going to make an appearance with Sylvia Browne?

Its a small world after all......
 
If Anita had the powers she claims in her website it would take about 5 minutes to convince a room full of skeptics of her abilites.

It's like all the paranormal powers that people claim to have, if they did have them it would be bleedin' obvious to everybody.
 
Without even posting here, it takes a long time each day just to keep up with this thread! I'm learning so much, though, I don't want to stop (VfF -- I wish I could quit you).

Anita, does it bother you at all that no one here (and I really mean I don't think even one person on this thread besides you) thinks that your study has a good design, or thinks that you might have a paranormal ability, or agrees with you that you have never been verifiably wrong in your perceptions regarding your main claim? I suppose you could say that the volunteers you got from FACT think your study is valuable, but unless they're reading this thread I doubt they could have anywhere near the kind of understanding we have of your claim and proposed methods.

Seriously, is there even one person? If so and you're just lurking, could you speak up?
 
Jonquill said:
I think Anita has been in America for a couple of years, so I guess she would start using the same expressions as the locals...
Click to expand...
Not only that, but a number of Europeans who I have met here are quite fluent in English from courses they take in school, but also they are familiar with American English from the cinema and the telly..
"Make my day."
"Deese youtes..."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom