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Thoughts arising from police bodycam footage

Darat said:
UK Highway Code (all UK drivers are expected to know all the sections relevant to themselves, driving tests now consist of a theory section and driving section) I suppose is the equivalent to "driver's ed"?

The section on drink driving is quite short: https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-drivers-and-motorcyclists-alcohol-and-drugs.html

Seems well crazy is the only word I can think of to me that you would teach anyone learning to drive a rule of thumb of how much you CAN drink and still drive.
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Darat said:
That to me seems crazy. It's almost asking to get drunk drivers.



See above it not only seems to be taught but officially refreshed!
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To me it seems like the opposite. It's not about the most you can get away with, it's about the least buffer you should give yourself.
 
theprestige said:
To me it seems like the opposite. It's not about the most you can get away with, it's about the least buffer you should give yourself.
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I think that is the obvious intent. To be honest, I doubt anyone pays attention to those after the first time they see one. The impact is fairly minimal I'd guess.
 
theprestige said:
However, I don't think it's reasonable to default to "ACAB" just because cops do a hard job better than you could, but still imperfectly.
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But they are

Even the "good ones" circle and shield the bad ones. Entire departments cover for and back up the actions of the bad ones and that goes on to prosecutors and judges as well. The whole system needs serious reform
 
ahhell said:
In at least some jurisdictions in the US there are two separate crimes. 1. Driving over the legal limit,
I think .008, I could be wrong. 2. Driving while intoxicated. For the lightweights and drugs other than booze.

When I get might license renewed, I typically get a little flyer with, if you weight this much you can have X drinks in Y amount of time and be over limit. I think its usually 2 in an hour for someone of my weight and sex. It's lower for women than men.
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Not to be too nitpicky, but it's .08 in most US states. I've actually have seen some shows where they blew like .28 and was like "See? Way under the limit!"
 
Darat said:
That to me seems crazy. It's almost asking to get drunk drivers.



See above it not only seems to be taught but officially refreshed!
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It's constructive notice about when you might want to give up the keys and take an Uber and when you are good to go. Yes, drivers would be better if they didn't have a few, but they'd also be better if they weren't tired or angry or upset or distracted by the radio, or a million other things.
 
PitPat said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIT_maneuver

It's a maneuver officers can do to gently sideswipe the back end of an eluding speeding car to get it lose control. Usually if they can't get stop sticks out in time.
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Thank you. I realise it's something I tried when involved in a bicycle chase with a friend's older brother some time in the 1960s. Unsurprisingly I was the one who fell off.
 
One of the thoughts I have while watching police bodycams is:

What the hell were they getting away with before bodycams existed??
 
theprestige said:
Maybe they weren't actually getting away with that much?
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Depends on how you define, "much"? This list of, "things the police get away with on a daily basis", should get us started. Abuse of authority, misconduct, misogynism, misandry, predatory behaviour, stalking, racism, dishonesty, corruption, murder, harrassment, abuse of social media, excessive force, receiving free meals, accepting bribes, having sex on duty, stealing items from a crime scene, substance abuse... how am I doing?
 
theprestige said:
Maybe they weren't actually getting away with that much?
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At least we can say that there is nothing so wrong with planting evidence that it should cost a police officer their job. I mean that one cop in NYC has been caught planting evidence twice and he still has a job. Only the best
 
I'm a middle class white boy with no automatic bone to grind against the police but during and after the four interactions I've had with them - two traffic stops in the UK, one traffic stop and an RTA in France - the officers concerned lied and lied and lied and lied. I do wonder how the criminal justice system is supposed to function.
 
malbui said:
I'm a middle class white boy with no automatic bone to grind against the police but during and after the four interactions I've had with them - two traffic stops in the UK, one traffic stop and an RTA in France - the officers concerned lied and lied and lied and lied. I do wonder how the criminal justice system is supposed to function.
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That's why I would never voluntarily interact with police unless it's nothing more than a traffic stop. They're encouraged to lie to you if they think it will get them a conviction and there is absolutely nothing requiring them to be honest. I certainly wouldn't step foot in a police station without an attorney present.

I work with cops regularly as part of my job. Sure, they're fine to deal with as a co-worker and person to person interaction; however, if they have you in their crosshairs then they will absolutely do whatever it takes to get a confession out of you.
 
The thing is, its not surprising that cops abuse their power, almost everyone who has power does. Kind of in the nature of power. After all, its not just the Catholic church with sex abuse scandals, practically every institution where adults have authority over kids away from their parents has had such scandals to one degree or another. Then with cops a much higher percentage of their interactions with the public are...well not the best situation or with the best people. Almost unavoidable that they'd start seeing the world as us vs them and think the public is mostly terrible and kind of deserves what they get.

So, yes, body cams are a great idea. We also need to figure out better incentives.
 
I've written this countless times here but I'll never tire of repeating it. NEVER interact with a cop unless you have absolutely no choice. They will attempt to put you on the wroing side of the law at every turn.
 
bluesjnr said:
I've written this countless times here but I'll never tire of repeating it. NEVER interact with a cop unless you have absolutely no choice. They will attempt to put you on the wroing side of the law at every turn.
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I’ve interacted with cops many times and have never had that experience.
 
jt512 said:
I’ve interacted with cops many times and have never had that experience.
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It would all depend on the context of the interaction with the police. bluesjnr's advice is rock solid. Unless you absolutely have to deal with a police officer (whether you had to call them or had them called on you) then I would suggest avoiding them.
 
I have had interactions with cops somewhere between 6 and a dozen times, mostly driving/parking. Highly variable, some were dicks some were fine.

The advice to not interact with them, while maybe good, is not especially practical. How often do you have a choice but would chose to? Hey, look a cop, lets say hello! More likely you've been pulled over or been a victim/victimizer/witness.
 
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