What did Democrats do wrong?

[The Great Zaganza]

imo there are two ways for american manufacturers to be competitive with china, it was either efficiency through automation or tariffs. i preferred the automation, but looks like we're running with the tariffs. terrible call. i think automation in manufacturing is incredibly misunderstood by most people.

anyway, where did they go wrong? failure to hold the traitorous elements of the gop responsible for their crimes. everything after that matters a lot less.

That presumes that the US is competing on the same products - it isn't.

 

[Donal]

Bowman's dug his own grave. He was running for the wrong district.

And Latimer is in the wrong party. But, democrats would rather lose to conservatives than win with progressives.

And what ever happened to "how dare yo uprimary a sitting Democrat?!?!?!" pearl clutching?

 

[Brainster]

David Axelrod has a good point:

Political strategist David Axelrod argued Thursday that Democrats are becoming a “smarty-pants, suburban, college-educated party” that could keep losing electorally if it does not change course.

“You can’t approach working people like missionaries and say, ‘We’re here to help you become more like us.’ There’s a kind of unspoken disdain, unintended disdain in that,” Axelrod, a CNN contributor, said in an interview with the outlet.

I don't agree about the unintended part, but the disdain comes through loud and clear.

 

[ahhell]

Running Biden in the first place and not having a proper primary. Sure, they can select a candidate however they want but Biden's approval rating plummeted and by just selecting his VP meant they had a candidate to closely tied to Biden. She couldn't distance herself effectively without seeming disloyal.

And Harris is just not that good at running for office, she never actually won a competitive race. She was part of the CA dem machine and only ever got elected there. Does that mean she'd be a bad president, no but unfortunately, it is a skill set folks need to get elected.

 

[Hercules56]

And Latimer is in the wrong party. But, democrats would rather lose to conservatives than win with progressives.

And what ever happened to "how dare yo uprimary a sitting Democrat?!?!?!" pearl clutching?

Bowman no longer represents interests and values of the district. Its why he lost.

 

[AmyStrange]

That presumes that the US is competing on the same products - it isn't.

True, but someone will have to run, stock and/or service these automations... at least for now anyway.


ETA: Let me put it this way, even if all the cars in America weren't made here, you still need people here to fix them when they break. Same thing with cell phones and computers.


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[The Don]

imo there are two ways for american manufacturers to be competitive with china, it was either efficiency through automation or tariffs. i preferred the automation, but looks like we're running with the tariffs. terrible call. i think automation in manufacturing is incredibly misunderstood by most people.

anyway, where did they go wrong? failure to hold the traitorous elements of the gop responsible for their crimes. everything after that matters a lot less.

IMO tariffs merely mean that local inefficiencies are allowed to continue. This has two major negative effects, goods are more expensive in the local market and it's more difficult to export because local protections make the goods even less competitive overseas.

Doesn't sound like a path to economic success. Of course if there are strategic industries that need protecting for national security, those negative outcomes may be worthwhile.

 

[Thermal]

imo there are two ways for american manufacturers to be competitive with china, it was either efficiency through automation or tariffs. i preferred the automation, but looks like we're running with the tariffs. terrible call. i think automation in manufacturing is incredibly misunderstood by most people.

Being competitive is a piece of cake. The consumer has to prefer American made. Domestic goods will cost more, because they are providing American wages, but it's in the tolerable range. I'll pay more, double and more sometimes, until it gets stupid (I saw an American made safety razor being sold for $382 recently).

It was a generation ago that I was buying an American and Union made Carhhart winter jacket for $40. Even estimating $100 inflation, that's an $80 jacket today. Yes, you can still buy a Chinese variety for $40, but I'd pay the difference happily.

Americans are innovative and can compete. The consumer has to demand it. We can't get people to care.

anyway, where did they go wrong? failure to hold the traitorous elements of the gop responsible for their crimes. everything after that matters a lot less.

That didn't make democrats sit on their lazy asses instead of cast a ballot.

 

[Brainster]

IMO tariffs merely mean that local inefficiencies are allowed to continue. This has two major negative effects, goods are more expensive in the local market and it's more difficult to export because local protections make the goods even less competitive overseas.

Doesn't sound like a path to economic success. Of course if there are strategic industries that need protecting for national security, those negative outcomes may be worthwhile.

The 60% tariff on Chinese goods is the worst idea to come out of either campaign this cycle. I was just hanging a new shower curtain in my bathroom the other day and glad I did it now, as it was made in China.

 

[Thermal]

True, but someone will have to run, stock and/or service these automations... at least for now anyway.


ETA: Let me put it this way, even if all the cars in America weren't made here, you still need people here to fix them when they break. Same thing with cell phones and computers.


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Right, but that's a foreign corporation making the big bucks on the new car or phone, and the much lower cost service and repair people (who were still doing the same service work no matter where the original product was made) getting some chump change tail-end. A new car is $50 large. An oil change is $20.

 

[dirtywick]

Being competitive is a piece of cake. The consumer has to prefer American made. Domestic goods will cost more, because they are providing American wages, but it's in the tolerable range. I'll pay more, double and more sometimes, until it gets stupid (I saw an American made safety razor being sold for $382 recently).

It was a generation ago that I was buying an American and Union made Carhhart winter jacket for $40. Even estimating $100 inflation, that's an $80 jacket today. Yes, you can still buy a Chinese variety for $40, but I'd pay the difference happily.

Americans are innovative and can compete. The consumer has to demand it. We can't get people to care.

i mean, i don't really agree with much of this. price is a major factor in being competitve at the point of sale, especially if inflationary economic policey puts you in a place where many consumer's only choice is an american made jacket they can't afford or a chinese one they can't afford. i agree americans can be innovative, but that's going back to increasing efficiency through automation, which requires skilled labor and infrastructure that's not currently in place.

That didn't make democrats sit on their lazy asses instead of cast a ballot.

i think it was a reason among many to stay home

 

[Thermal]

The 60% tariff on Chinese goods is the worst idea to come out of either campaign this cycle. I was just hanging a new shower curtain in my bathroom the other day and glad I did it now, as it was made in China.

Yeah, start looking around the house, bro. It's freaking everything now, not just cheap incidentals.

 

[Thermal]

i mean, i don't really agree with much of this. price is a major factor in being competitve at the point of sale, especially if inflationary economic policey puts you in a place where many consumer's only choice is an american made jacket they can't afford or a chinese one they can't afford. i agree americans can be innovative, but that's going back to increasing efficiency through automation, which requires skilled labor and infrastructure that's not currently in place.

A pair of Chinese made Nike Air Jordan's runs, what? Like $200 nowadays? And they are on the feet of the "poor who can't afford them". So are iphones.

Those who are in the kind of desperate poverty you seem to be inferring are not driving the consumer market. It's regular people, for whom it is much more a choice of simply being cheap or not.

i think it was a reason among many to stay home

Then they deserve exactly what they got.

 

[bobdroege7]

We lost because we are progressive, liberal, democratic, and the US is not ready for a female president.

And last time I bought gas it was 2.49 a gallon, and inflation is 2%.

We are screwed, Trump won't fix the border, will make inflation worse, will make the deficit worse, and the Gaza war won't end for at least another 4 years.

Not to mention doing anything about climate change, although last time I drove to Illinois, wind mills going up like sawgrass and crabgrass in my lawn.

 

[dirtywick]

A pair of Chinese made Nike Air Jordan's runs, what? Like $200 nowadays? And they are on the feet of the "poor who can't afford them". So are iphones.

Those who are in the kind of desperate poverty you seem to be inferring are not driving the consumer market. It's regular people, for whom it is much more a choice of simply being cheap or not.

well they'll be $350 or more after a 60% tariff. people with little discretionary income, especially if they cut social spending and assistance programs, are going to feel that the most. next up is regular people, who simply will have to tighten up their discretionary spending which might not ruin them but will slow the economy. then there's the wealthy, who can continue on as they were.

you remember covid right? a bunch of supply chain issues and inflation which spiked unemployment, but there was policy and spending geared towards alleviating that. what if the policy was driving it, and spending gets cut? regular people are going to feel that. this is what i see happening if they follow through on this stuff.

Then they deserve exactly what they got.

well if you want to talk about if democrats deserve to lose, that's one thing. i thought we were talking about how they could have avoided it.

-edit-

to be clear, i'm not crying for anybody. make your bed and lie in it. but, you think a bunch of inflation isn't going to effect me? it's a problem.

i also don't really agree with your caricature of poor people. a lot of families with young kids starting out carrying debt, lost a lot of their cushion to rising costs of living and essentials from the last round of inflation are in that group. they're as regular as you.

 

[AmyStrange]

Right, but that's a foreign corporation making the big bucks on the new car or phone, and the much lower cost service and repair people (who were still doing the same service work no matter where the original product was made) getting some chump change tail-end. A new car is $50 large. An oil change is $20.

True, but who makes the big bucks in manufacturing? Certainly not the laborers. Look at what recently just happened at Boeing. 1,700 hard-working Americans just got laid off. Was that because of labor or because of upper management. IMO, there's nothing wrong with working as a tech person. If you want to believe that there is, fine, but I'm not convinced, especially since I worked as a tech for most of my life, and it wasn't all for "chum-change" either.


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[AmyStrange]

We lost because we are progressive, liberal, democratic, and the US is not ready for a female president.

And last time I bought gas it was 2.49 a gallon, and inflation is 2%.

We are screwed, Trump won't fix the border, will make inflation worse, will make the deficit worse, and the Gaza war won't end for at least another 4 years.

Not to mention doing anything about climate change, although last time I drove to Illinois, wind mills going up like sawgrass and crabgrass in my lawn.

I'm a reasonable republican, and I approve of your message.


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[Ziggurat]

We lost because we are progressive, liberal, democratic, and the US is not ready for a female president.

 

[Donal]

Bowman no longer represents interests and values of the district. donors Its why he lost.

FTFY

And you keep sidestepping all my questions about why centrists are allowed to do things they are horrified at progressives for doing

 

[Thermal]

True, but who makes the big bucks in manufacturing? Certainly not the laborers. Look at what recently just happened at Boeing. 1,700 hard-working Americans just got laid off. Was that because of labor or because of upper management. IMO, there's nothing wrong with working as a tech person. If you want to believe that there is, fine, but I'm not convinced, especially since I worked as a tech for most of my life, and it wasn't all for "chum-change" either.


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Oh, please don't misunderstand me. There's nothing at all wrong with it; quite the contrary. I'm saying the initial new product big bucks should originate domestically, not in China. American workers won't make the lion's share, of course, but a fair manufacturing wage in a Union shop with benefits is, IMO, preferable to feeding (and growing more dependent on) Communist China for our goods.