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Bitcoin - Part 2

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Puppycow

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Continued from here.
Posted By: LashL



US to auction off bit coins seized from Silk Road. Should be interesting to see how that affects the value.

The marshals said Thursday that they will auction the virtual "coins," consisting of sets of numbers entered in an online public ledger, via the web on June 27.

Well June 27 has passed and it looks like the value is up atm.

Found this story about the auction:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/sns-rt-us-usa-bitcoin-20140701,0,4038036.story

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Venture capitalist Tim Draper, sole winner of an auction last week of 30,000 bitcoins by the U.S. Marshals Service, called the sale a vote of confidence by the government in the nascent crypto-currency.

The well-known Silicon Valley investor partnered with Palo Alto-based Vaurum, which facilitates over-the-counter bitcoin trading, for the sale but would not discuss how much he paid.

Draper, a major backer of Vaurum, will partner with the startup to use the coins as a liquidity source for Vaurum's trading platforms in emerging markets, Draper told reporters in Palo Alto on Wednesday.

"If they thought that they were going to try to put the kibosh on bitcoin, I think they would have just buried these," Draper said, referring to the government's stance on the currency. "Instead, they decided that this was of real value to society."

How much he paid is a secret:
The U.S. Marshals Service auctioned off 29,655 bitcoins at an estimated worth of about $18 million in an online, sealed-bid auction that drew more than 40 bidders, including a number of well-known players in the crypto-currency. Terms of the sale have not been disclosed, but the success gives the virtual currency more legitimacy as a means of exchange.

I wonder how the auction worked. Did you have to bid for all of them or could you bid for some of them? I wonder if he paid about what the price on PREEV is or more to ensure he won?
 
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US to auction off bit coins seized from Silk Road. Should be interesting to see how that affects the value.

The marshals said Thursday that they will auction the virtual "coins," consisting of sets of numbers entered in an online public ledger, via the web on June 27.

Well June 27 has passed and it looks like the value is up atm.

Found this story about the auction:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/sns-rt-us-usa-bitcoin-20140701,0,4038036.story

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Venture capitalist Tim Draper, sole winner of an auction last week of 30,000 bitcoins by the U.S. Marshals Service, called the sale a vote of confidence by the government in the nascent crypto-currency.

The well-known Silicon Valley investor partnered with Palo Alto-based Vaurum, which facilitates over-the-counter bitcoin trading, for the sale but would not discuss how much he paid.

Draper, a major backer of Vaurum, will partner with the startup to use the coins as a liquidity source for Vaurum's trading platforms in emerging markets, Draper told reporters in Palo Alto on Wednesday.

"If they thought that they were going to try to put the kibosh on bitcoin, I think they would have just buried these," Draper said, referring to the government's stance on the currency. "Instead, they decided that this was of real value to society."

How much he paid is a secret:
The U.S. Marshals Service auctioned off 29,655 bitcoins at an estimated worth of about $18 million in an online, sealed-bid auction that drew more than 40 bidders, including a number of well-known players in the crypto-currency. Terms of the sale have not been disclosed, but the success gives the virtual currency more legitimacy as a means of exchange.

I wonder how the auction worked. Did you have to bid for all of them or could you bid for some of them? I wonder if he paid about what the price on PREEV is or more to ensure he won?


Hmm--interesting. This whole thing is a bit weird to me. Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to be untraceable, uncontrollable, unable to be confiscated, un-taxable, and outside the reach of any government?

Or maybe all that was simply empty hype?
 
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Hmm--interesting. This whole thing is a bit weird to me. Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to be untraceable, uncontrollable, unable to be confiscated, un-taxable, and outside the reach of any government?

Or maybe all that was simply empty hype?

If you use it carefully and the government doesn't get hold of your computers containing unencrypted bit-wallets, then yes. The claims are correct, to a degree.

But the transfer of Bitcoins between wallets is completely transparent and easily traceable. If they find out which wallet is yours (such as checking whose bank account is being used to buy more or sell off the Bitcoins in that account), they can easily watch how many Bitcoins are passing through your wallet and where they're going.

(There are anonymous services that can disguise where the Bitcoins are coming from and going to, but they charge a fee, and there's no way to be sure they won't keep all your Bitcoins for themselves.)

If the government gets hold of your computer, and your wallet is on it (and not password protected) they can just pretend to be you and transfer the Bitcoins to a government wallet.

If it is password protected, they can always try to crack the password or, more simply, pressure you to hand over the password with threats of pressing extra charges.

The only way to be absolutely sure your Bitcoins are safe is to keep the wallet on a storage device or piece of paper and hide it somewhere they'll never find it. But that's inconvenient for you, because you'd have to retrieve it every time you want to use it, and they could always pressure you to reveal its location.

If you keep your Bitcoins in an exchange, its easy for them to get hold of them, they just have to force the exchange to turn over your account, exactly as they would with a bank account.
 
Hmm--interesting. This whole thing is a bit weird to me. Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to be untraceable, uncontrollable, unable to be confiscated, un-taxable, and outside the reach of any government?

Or maybe all that was simply empty hype?

That surely seems to be some kind of hype you've heard. I can't think of anything in this world that is or could be all of those things. Not even your deepest most secretest secrets. There is always a way.
 
Wasn't Bitcoin supposed to be untraceable, uncontrollable, unable to be confiscated, un-taxable, and outside the reach of any government?
It is none of these things if you are careless. Bitcoin is not idiot proof and what Thomas Tusser had to say about "a fool and his money" applies equally well to bitcoin holders.
 

If it is password protected, they can always try to crack the password or, more simply, pressure you to hand over the password with threats of pressing extra charges.

Yeah, at the end of the day, if they can arrest you, they can take your bitcoins (or at least force you to pay a heavy price if you won't). A low-tech hack for a high-tech security scheme.
 
Yeah, at the end of the day, if they can arrest you, they can take your bitcoins

I disagree - they can remove your access to your bitcoins, to your liberty or to your life, but that cannot take your bitcoin.

This issues isn't specific to bitcoin but to personal secret data. It's truly possible to encrypt data st no rational amount of processing power can decrypt it w/o the key. It's always possible that some future mathematician will devise a clever way to crack these crypts more rapidly, but that's tentative and even dubious in the case of certain crypts.

So imagine that you carefully manage the key that controls your bitcoin identity or other secret data. The day you get arrested/kidnapped you destroy the key. Now it's impossible for anyone to access the encrypted data. No one can obtain this data.

(or at least force you to pay a heavy price if you won't). A low-tech hack for a high-tech security scheme.

Yes, but they can do that anyway - the primary motivation is to ultimately collect your goods or data - and they can't succeed at that if you are willing to destroy the key.

Truly destroying recorded data is another issue - but not unreachable.
 
The EU (EBA, European Banking Authority) agrees with me that an officially regulated virtual currency (VC) is needed:

"A governance authority may, at first, appear incompatible with the conceptual origins of VCs as a decentralised scheme that does not require the involvement of a central bank or government. However, the mandatory creation of a scheme governance body does not imply that VC units have to be centrally issued. This function can remain decentralised and be run through, for example, a protocol and a transaction ledger." -- EBA Opinion on ‘virtual currencies’ pp. 40 -- http://www.eba.europa.eu/documents/10180/657547/EBA-Op-2014-08+Opinion+on+Virtual+Currencies.pdf
 
The EU (EBA, European Banking Authority) agrees with me that an officially regulated virtual currency (VC) is needed:

"A governance authority may, at first, appear incompatible with the conceptual origins of VCs as a decentralised scheme that does not require the involvement of a central bank or government. However, the mandatory creation of a scheme governance body does not imply that VC units have to be centrally issued. This function can remain decentralised and be run through, for example, a protocol and a transaction ledger." -- EBA Opinion on ‘virtual currencies’ pp. 40 -- http://www.eba.europa.eu/documents/10180/657547/EBA-Op-2014-08+Opinion+on+Virtual+Currencies.pdf

Not quite, they say that virtual currencies should be regulated not that:

  • A regulated virtual currency is required - in the absence of any virtual currencies
  • A new regulated virtual currency needs to be created - the existing currencies should be regulated

You've also made it sound like they've taken you up on your suggestion rather than you happening to share the same view.
 
Not quite, they say that virtual currencies should be regulated ......
..... and even then, they are more interested in ensuring that existing financial services are quarantined from "virtual currencies". From page 44:
Until a comprehensive regulatory regime is developed, (if it is developed at all), only those risks can be mitigated that arise in the interaction between VC schemes and the regulated financial services sector (but not those that arise from activities within or between VC schemes). This would include risks of money laundering and financial crime, the risks to conventional payment systems, and some risks to individual users. To that end, the EBA recommends that national supervisory authorities discourage credit institutions, payment institutions, and e-money institutions from buying, holding or selling VCs, thereby 'shielding' regulated financial services from VCs.
 
So imagine that you carefully manage the key that controls your bitcoin identity or other secret data. The day you get arrested/kidnapped you destroy the key. Now it's impossible for anyone to access the encrypted data. No one can obtain this data.
But how would that work exactly? There's a bang on the door and you look outside - it's the pigs, delete! "Sorry to bother you sir but you've left your headlights on".

If you get arrested (or kidnapped!), there's no guaranteed grace period where you get a chance to delete your stuff.
 
But how would that work exactly? There's a bang on the door and you look outside - it's the pigs, delete! "Sorry to bother you sir but you've left your headlights on".

If you get arrested (or kidnapped!), there's no guaranteed grace period where you get a chance to delete your stuff.
LOL - you suck at being a criminal.
 
But how would that work exactly? There's a bang on the door and you look outside - it's the pigs, delete! "Sorry to bother you sir but you've left your headlights on".

If you get arrested (or kidnapped!), there's no guaranteed grace period where you get a chance to delete your stuff.

Dead man button.

You simply make it so that if you do not regularly (24 ? 48 h) it automatically delete your stuff, and rewrite with random data.
 
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